what was wrong with Kelly Pavlik ??

[Dynamite Kid]

I've said it before but any version of Hopkins beats any version of Pavlik.

Stylisitically, Hops negates Pav's main strength, his power, by being so elusive. Hopkins didn't stand in front of him, gave him lots of lateral movement, moved away from Pavlik's right. Pavlik just couldn't land.

Why was he so sluggish? Maybe it was weight- he was noticably quicker in the Taylor 1 and Lockett fights than he was in Taylor 2 and Hopkins. Maybe Team Pavlik didn't take Hopkins seriously enough.

But, you know, I just think Bernard is an ATG who had so much more ring savvy and a skill level set than Pavlik. And like I said, Pavlik is one of my curent faves, but he can't hang with an ATG, even an old version of him.

yeah but to be fair we ALL knew Hopkins stylistically was nightmare for Pavlik its just no one expected him to be able to beat Pavlik cause we thought he could not stustain his workrate to win the fight based on the Joe fight

[Steak]

exactly thats all im saying Nard still wins and the guy is an ATG no question about it but can we discuss this without having to keep reiterating to other the point that Hopkins still would of won

unfortunately, we have to keep bringing that part up, because otherwise someone will get the wrong idea and have a temper tantrum because they think we're 'making excuses' for our 'favorite fighter' or something...

some people on this forum are so used to bull****, that thats all they ever see, even when people are just trying to have a casual hypothetical boxing conversation.

[Dynamite Kid]

unfortunately, we have to keep bringing that part up, because otherwise someone will get the wrong idea and have a temper tantrum because they think we're 'making excuses' for our 'favorite fighter' or something...

some people on this forum are so used to bull****, that thats all they ever see, even when people are just trying to have a casual hypothetical boxing conversation.

its funny but so true

[Porter's Dad]

unfortunately, we have to keep bringing that part up, because otherwise someone will get the wrong idea and have a temper tantrum because they think we're 'making excuses' for our 'favorite fighter' or something...

some people on this forum are so used to bull****, that thats all they ever see, even when people are just trying to have a casual hypothetical boxing conversation.

Lol, yeah man, I feel the need to make that point again because I'm so used to seeing nuthuggery, that I totally want to distance myself away from that and give Bernard his dues.

That is why I haven't cited all the excuses that are trickling out of the Pavlik camp.

At 160, I think it would be closer, but Hopkins would still take it, IMHO. Pavlik has not impressed me at all fighting over 160.

[Dynamite Kid]

its like the Chavez v Vanda fight anyone with half a brain could see Chavez jr was not 100% he looked dejected,flustered,and just down right ill in the corner in the first fight with Vanda

yet with all this he still got cained the next day on here he was sick as a dog in that corner i dont know how so many people could of missed it yet they just wanted to focus on the fact Vanda was a bum that he should of dealt with and saying ****** things like he lost the fight which he did not

[Steak]

Lol, yeah man, I feel the need to make that point again because I'm so used to seeing nuthuggery, that I totally want to distance myself away from that and give Bernard his dues.

That is why I haven't cited all the excuses that are trickling out of the Pavlik camp.

At 160, I think it would be closer, but Hopkins would still take it, IMHO. Pavlik has not impressed me at all fighting over 160.

eh, I didnt think he was incredibly different at 160 compared to 170. Pavlik is what he is...you could almost compare him Steve Collins ish. a good puncher, pretty good chin, nice workrate, plenty of heart...if youre a fighter who has leaky defence, you might get your ass kicked by him. If you have boxing ability and can take advantage of how slow he can be, you can make him look like garbage. its just the kind of fighter he is.

really, the biggest surprise to me was how alive Hopkins looked. thought that bastard would have been shot by then.
but Pavlik could have shown much more, even if he would have ended up getting the hell countered out of him.

[βetamax]

come on dude Pavlik did not look energized he looked frozen and he was not punching thats why he was not tired i agree Nard still beats him good but i cant say he lookeed 100%

I disagree. Even after absorbing 4-5 punch combinations from Hopkins he would gather himself and quickly more forward in an attempt to apply pressure and that went on the entire night. The only time he looked frozen was when Hopkins wasn't allowing him to get off.

He even said himself that he was never physically tired, he just couldn't get off.

[Dynamite Kid]

Lol, yeah man, I feel the need to make that point again because I'm so used to seeing nuthuggery, that I totally want to distance myself away from that and give Bernard his dues.

That is why I haven't cited all the excuses that are trickling out of the Pavlik camp.

At 160, I think it would be closer, but Hopkins would still take it, IMHO. Pavlik has not impressed me at all fighting over 160.

fair enough,he has never impressed me that much either but i just had to bring this up cause i felt it was a relevant point and wanted to get others opinions too

[Dynamite Kid]

I disagree. Even after absorbing 4-5 punch combinations from Hopkins he would gather himself and quickly more forward in an attempt to apply pressure and that went on the entire night. The only time he looked frozen was when Hopkins wasn't allowing him to get off.

He even said himself that he was never physically tired, he just couldn't get off.

moving foward dont take anything out of ya its when you start unloading when you get there and Pavlik was not doing that even if he would of been getting hit doing it he just was not doing it

ive been to the gym and not been able to throw punches when on the bag even though i dont feel tired stuff like that happens when you fluctuate in weight

i take your point though,if you think Kelly looked 100% fair enough i personally dont but we will have to agree to disagree

[S A M U R A I]

convenient

no one is saying he can beat Hopkins we are saying he did not look right but he still would of lost but what was the reason he was not punching

What was the reason he wasn't punching? Simple! He didn't have a target!



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