Here is the rules that matter in the bute fight!!!!!!!

[bazookajoe]

The reason why the downed fighter doesn't have to be fit to box is that he can't suffer more punishment until the next round. So he has time to recover and if he can't, his corner can stop the fight. That rule doesn't put him in immediate danger. That being said, I wouldn't be unduly upset if it was rewritten.

I agree 100%, but the problem I have with this rule is that the ref knows it...and towards the end of the fight he can become more lenient, saying to himself...well....he's won 10 of 11 esily....all he has to do is get by the next 30 seconds. should i take the title away from him??? this reasoning is happening in split seconds. any way he applies it will create controversy. i can jsust imagine how many things must go through the refs mind

He's getting pretty beat up
this kid is looking pretty bad
arms are down. gotta think about stoppage
but the clock is winding down, and all he has to do is get up
****, andrade's really got him cornered.
bute's down...do i start the count or wave it off? rules say he's ok if he stands up...any way.....there's no time left.
what do i do
stop it and i can get mauled
wave it off....but what if bute, who won 10 rounds of 11, can make it to the bell?
is Andrade out of his corner? bute went right to the neutral corner with his arms around the ropes when i called that slip a knockdown...what's andrade doing
etc.

All that and lots more in like 20 seconds time. Didn't matter though...Bute got up, and according to the half-assed written rules he's the winner.

IBF president Muhammad said publicly that the ref did his job, there was NO controversy, and GBP will have to produce way more to the IBF than the dvd copy of the fight they provided.

[Taranazan]

I agree 100%, but the problem I have with this rule is that the ref knows it...and towards the end of the fight he can become more lenient, saying to himself...well....he's won 10 of 11 esily....all he has to do is get by the next 30 seconds. should i take the title away from him??? this reasoning is happening in split seconds. any way he applies it will create controversy. i can jsust imagine how many things must go through the refs mind

He's getting pretty beat up
this kid is looking pretty bad
arms are down. gotta think about stoppage
but the clock is winding down, and all he has to do is get up
****, andrade's really got him cornered.
bute's down...do i start the count or wave it off? rules say he's ok if he stands up...any way.....there's no time left.
what do i do
stop it and i can get mauled
wave it off....but what if bute, who won 10 rounds of 11, can make it to the bell?
is Andrade out of his corner? bute went right to the neutral corner with his arms around the ropes when i called that slip a knockdown...what's andrade doing
etc.

All that and lots more in like 20 seconds time. Didn't matter though...Bute got up, and according to the half-assed written rules he's the winner.

IBF president Muhammad said publicly that the ref did his job, there was NO controversy, and GBP will have to produce way more to the IBF than the dvd copy of the fight they provided.

I agree with you, and that's the reason why I say there wasn't a good or a bad decision for the ref. There are valid arguments by both sides in this situation.

[bazookajoe]

I agree with you, and that's the reason why I say there wasn't a good or a bad decision for the ref. There are valid arguments by both sides in this situation.

exactly why it's the rules' fault. there should never be valid arguments by both sides in a fight of such magnitude.

[bazookajoe]

for shame, and I beileve the IBF has an obligation to explain to Librado Andrade HIMSELF EXACTLY why he lost. for god's sake he deserves to know.

[Taranazan]

exactly why it's the rules' fault. there should never be valid arguments by both sides in a fight of such magnitude.

Right, but if it was possible to eliminate every single grey area, there would be no courts at all! And I wouldn't be studying law!!

[bazookajoe]

Right, but if it was possible to eliminate every single grey area, there would be no courts at all! And I wouldn't be studying law!!

studying law? then you know how many holes rule 6 not only has...but creates!

I am so on the fence about this one. Librado deserved better than losing on a technicality. he took everything bute threw at him and the difference between knock out and knock down and knock out and technical knockout, and standing 8 count, and standing up with gloves off the floor....beat him that night, not bute....

[Taranazan]

studying law? then you know how many holes rule 6 not only has...but creates!

I am so on the fence about this one. Librado deserved better than losing on a technicality. he took everything bute threw at him and the difference between knock out and knock down and knock out and technical knockout, and standing 8 count, and standing up with gloves off the floor....beat him that night, not bute....

Of course there are holes in the rule. The problem is that there are holes in 90% of the rules and laws. We just don't know until something nobody thought about happens. And to be honest, it is impossible to think about every possibility. We just have to live with that, unfortunately.

[bazookajoe]

Of course there are holes in the rule. The problem is that there are holes in 90% of the rules and laws. We just don't know until something nobody thought about happens. And to be honest, it is impossible to think about every possibility. We just have to live with that, unfortunately.

agreed. but you will agree also that rules that could affect a boxer's security must be looked at first....you seem to downplay this crucial element by citing percentage of regulations that have holes in them. security and well being must be primordial. and in this case, the ref has too much discretion to play with a boxer's life. especially if one is from his hometown!

[El Chicano]

With those rules he lost the fight, it was over 10 seconds before he was standing with no support from the ropes.

Yessir, he got like an 18 second count and he was still being held up by the ropes.

[Taranazan]

Yessir, he got like an 18 second count and he was still being held up by the ropes.

Then we simply don't have the same definition of "being held up by the ropes". Once he's up and faces the referee (which is to say after 8-9 seconds), I don't see it as "being held up". And still if you say it was "being held up", you can't know if he really needed the ropes or if he just used them without needing to, and because the ref wasn't in front of him.