Enzo A Few Months Back

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 09:32 PM

I guess my only problem with some of the things he said in there in reference to Pav and how he pretty much degraded his progress and standings right now - BUT - they had no problem with Manfredo and Lacy. Most say Manfredo was a tune-up fight but what about Lacy? What made Lacy SO MUCH more credible in the JC camp's eyes than a shot at Pavlik? Enzo was definitely, literally, banking off the RJJ legend. I think deep down, he knows JC SHOULD win this fight convincingly and add another HOF'er to his son's list of casualties while banking a ton of money - FINE. I can handle that, but why the need to degrade Pavlik as if he is not worthy? According to some of the other interviews I read, his camp is under the strange feeling that by beating Hop - THEN - he will be credible. IDK, I'm just confused a little I guess.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 09:43 PM

Another one you guys may have seen, but for those who haven't.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:02 PM

A newer article that I thought was interesting.

Without A Fight Against Pavlik, Does Calzaghe Deserve To Be Considered an All Time Great?
By Jim Dower: Joe Calzaghe (45-0, 32 KOs) will wrap up his excellent career against Roy Jones Jr. (58-4, 38 KOs) on November 8th at New York’s Madison Square Garden, a fight that has earned Calzaghe a huge amount of criticism by many boxing fans who wanted to see him go out in style against undefeated Kelly Pavlik. Calzaghe, 35, however, is doing what Oscar De La Hoya is going, namely going after the most amount of money at the least amount of risk. He certainly deserves a easy fight or two after having a stellar career in which he defended his WBO super middleweight title countless times without losing once.

However, by ending his career in a big money fight against an opponent that some feel that is unworthy, Calzaghe is angering a lot of people and tarnishing his career in their eyes. If he does end up retiring after his fight with Jones, can Calzaghe still be considered an all time great? That’s kind of a touchy question, because Calzaghe’s choice of fighting Jones rather than Pavlik, makes it seems as if Calzaghe is avoiding the more dangerous threat against Pavlik just so that he can finish his career with his legacy and unbeaten record intact. Calzaghe didn’t help his case any by having to fight hard in his last fight, defeating a ring weary 43 year-old Bernard Hopkins by a 12-round split decision. Hopkins, however, slowed the fight to a crawl and made it an ugly fight by clinching Calzaghe, and keeping him from throwing his nonstop combinations. Boxing fans, though, don’t care about that, all they care about is that Calzaghe struggled against Hopkins and was barely able to beat him by a close decision.

By following this bout with a fight against Jones, who at 39 is also past his prime, it gives ammunition to Calzaghe’s critics, making it easy for them to attack him for avoiding a more dangerous fighter like Pavlik. Some of their ammunition may be taken away from them should Pavlik lose or also have to struggle to win against Hopkins, whom he’s fighting later this month on October 18th. However, if Pavlik looks good by stopping Hopkins or shutting him out, it’s going to put a lot of pressure on Calzaghe to face him. With an impressive record like Calzaghe’s, he can ignore Pavlik all he wants, and retire from boxing. If he does this, however, it will probably be hard for many fans to consider Calzaghe an all time great.

Sure, his own fans in Wales will probably still love and support him as one of their own, but elsewhere in the world, Calzaghe may have a hard time finding as much support as he should be getting with his unbeaten record intact. And, if Calzaghe decides to fight a rematch with Jones rather than a fight with Pavlik, then it will seem even worse for Calzaghe I’m afraid. I can just see how that will go over with the boxing fans in the numerous internet forums. For Calzaghe’s sake, he needs to consider taking the fight with Pavlik regardless of the risk. Just get it over with and face his demons.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:07 PM

About a month old.

Is Calzaghe Afraid of Pavlik?
By Michael Lieberman: After watching this week’s Steve Bunce boxing special, I’m more than a little confused about who’s telling the truth between Joe Calzaghe and Kelly Pavlik in terms of whether or not Calzaghe ever offered a fight to Pavlik in the past. According to Calzaghe, he twice contacted Pavlik about a fight in the past but he failed to take the bait. For his part, Pavlik is saying that Calzaghe has never once offered to give him a fight, and is just trying to “save face” by saying that he offered Pavlik a fight which he wouldn’t accept. One thing is clear, however, Calzaghe clearly isn’t interested in fighting Pavlik anymore, if he ever was to begin with.

Calzaghe is more interested in making easy money, saying “I deserve to get the biggest fights of the day…I want to retire and keep my looks intact.” The part where Calzaghe said that he’d like to keep his looks intact, seems to give me the impression that he doesn’t want to fight Pavlik because he understands how hard such a fight would be and would potentially risk getting hurt by him.

Although Calzaghe says he offered Pavlik a fight in 2006, there’s no evidence to show that he ever did this, and we only have Calzaghe’s word on this. Somehow, Calzaghe just doesn’t come across as that believable because he seems so intent on retiring without facing Pavlik, a fighter that is a very real threat to him despite him saying that he’s unproven and overrated.

How a fighter like Pavlik could be considered unproven and overrated after twice defeating the likes of Jermain Taylor, stopping Edison Miranda, Fulgencio Zuniga and Bronco McKart, is a mystery to me. In truth, I’d give anyone of those fighters an excellent chance of defeating most, if not all, of the opponents that Calzaghe has faced in his boxing career. From what I can see of the two fighters’ records, Calzaghe is the one that is unproven. He’s only beaten one could fighter - Mikkel Kessler - and the most of them pretty average.

We’ll soon probably see one of Calzaghe’s best wins, his defeat of Jeff Lacy in 2006, be put in perspective when Jermain Taylor fights Lacy and likely knocks him out in short order. If Calzaghe thinks that Pavlik is overrated, then he needs to take a good look in the mirror because Pavlik is dominating his opponents, who I consider to be a whole lot better than the mostly Euro fighters that Calzaghe was served up during his career, in a much more impressive manner than Calzaghe has.

Actions speak louder than words, and what Calzaghe’s reluctance to fight Pavlik seems to confirm for me is that Calzaghe is afraid of Pavlik, probably afraid of being beaten to a pulp like his fellow countryman Gary Lockett was by Pavlik in June. Ending a career on a losing note is obviously something most fighters would naturally want to avoid having happen, but then again fighting an entire career against less than what I consider stellar opposition is far worse. After all these years, this is Calzaghe’s one big chance to fight a real legitimately talented fighter, not some old, over-the-hill fighter brought in to give Calzaghe another big payday.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:12 PM

I posted it all, but I really like the ending of this article.

Calzaghe Needs To Man-Up and Fight Pavlik
By Chris Williams: Sounding a more than a little defensive and angry in an interview with The Sun, undefeated Joe Calzaghe (45-0, 32 KOs) ripped into middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik (34-0, 30 KOs), saying that Pavlik declined to fight him after he made an effort to fight him just after he (Calzaghe) had defeated Jeff Lacy back in 2006. Rather than fight him, Calzaghe points out, Pavlik chose to fight Jermain Taylor, who Pavlik beat twice. Calzaghe claims that after Pavlik defeated Gary Lockett in June 2008, he failed to approach Calzaghe about a fight. It was only after Calzaghe signed for a fight with the 39 year-old Roy Jones Jr. (52-4, 38 KOs), that Pavlik “started to get brave,” Calzaghe says. What Calzaghe says seems somewhat odd, however, because Pavlik had previously shown great interested in fighting Calzaghe before and after the fight with Lockett, and would seen curious that Calzaghe believes that Pavlik wasn’t interested in a fight.

Pavlik, arguably the best fighter in the middleweight division, has been interested in a fight with Calzaghe for well over a year, something that most boxing fans are well aware of by now. It was thought that Calzaghe would fight him after Pavlik’s fight with Lockett recently. However, instead of signing on with a fight with the young 26 year-old knockout artist Pavlik, Calzaghe turned his sights over to what most fans feel is an easier opponent in the thirty-nine year old Roy Jones Jr., a fighter that is clearly in the twilight of his once great boxing career. Saying that he’s accomplished all that there is in his career, Calzaghe has recently announced that his November 8th fight against Jones will be his last fight of his career, and that he will retire immediately after the fight.

The logical question would seem to be how can Calzaghe retire when he has such a tough - and popular - opponent like Pavlik beating down his door? While he may say that there will always be one fighter or another calling him out without stop should he continue with his career, there’s none like Pavlik that the fans would really listen to. Indeed, if Calzaghe were to fight Pavlik, and beat him, there’s no other fighters on the horizon that are good enough for the fans to take seriously if the fighter were to challenge a retiring Calzaghe.

The light middleweight division is barren of stars, as is the middleweight and super middleweight divisions. The same goes for the light heavyweight division. Perhaps the only fighters that fans would even consider as an opponent for Calzaghe would be someone like Oscar De La Hoya or Antonio Margarito. I doubt seriously that De La Hoya would want to risk getting his face slapped around by Calzaghe for 12 long, likely embarrassing rounds, and in the case of Margarito, he would be simply way too small for Calzaghe.

Other than Pavlik, there would be no other fighters that the boxing fans would take seriously enough to listen to if Calzaghe was challenged in his retirement. For that reason, it’s important for Calzaghe to try and somehow reconsider his decision to retire after his fight with Jones, and instead fight one more time against Pavlik, even if it means a potentially career ending loss. There’s no shame in losing to a fighter like Pavlik, is there? I think there’s more shame in avoiding him and having people question Calzaghe’s manhood than in facing him and trying his best.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:14 PM

Ok, this is the last one I'll post. This is from the other side of thinking and what, I think, most of the Pro-Calzaghe crowd in here are all pointing towards. Whatever you feel on either fighter, if they both win their next fights, I say it should happen sometime in 09. IMO, I'd like the unification with AA first.

Has Pavlik Earned The Right to Demand a Bout Against Calzaghe?
By Jonathan Watkins: To become a renowned champion, you must fight your way to the top and then maintain the skills and consistency to stay there. Once accomplished you then have the luxury of sitting at the top of your division and being sought after by up and coming boxers. These fighters, aspiring to become better than the best fighter, have something to prove, unlike the title-holder who has already proven his worth.

A current champion who has come under scrutiny about his choice in fights is one Joseph Calzaghe, the Welshman who boasts a record of 45-0-0. Along with this impressive record, he has held the WBO Super-middleweight title for an astonishing ten years. On the way to earning these credentials he has beaten such fighters as Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, and Bernard Hopkins. Joe Calzaghe’s record speaks for itself.

So now enter the repetitive criticism of Calzaghe. Apparently the undefeated Welshman is avoiding the challenge of young American talent Kelly Pavlik. Calzaghe is allegedly afraid of losing his unbeaten record against the middleweight fighter. But where is the evidence that Pavlik would defeat Calzaghe, a statement that many have made without really having much to back their claim.

According to critics, Calzaghe hasn’t proved himself by defeating Hopkins, Lacy and Kessler; how then has Pavlik become so supreme after defeating Edison Miranda and Jermain Taylor, who, might I add caused Pavlik more than a few problems in both fights.

Granted, Pavlik is an undeniable talent who currently possesses an undefeated record, but this still doesn’t lead him to be categorized in the same league as Calzaghe who has disposed of the many proven fighters that have come his way. Let us also remember that he emerged victorious against Jeff Lacy, again a fight that many believed he would lose. With his history, record and reputation, I find it hard to believe that Calzaghe should be the one chasing after a fight with Pavlik, as if he has something to prove. Calzaghe has said his next fight will be his last, so it is not a case of Calzaghe being afraid of the young Pavlik, it’s a matter of how the he wants to end his career.

Calzaghe has opted for a final fight against Roy Jones Jr. to take place at Madison Square Garden, New York on November 8th. These two fighters have established themselves as boxing greats throughout their careers, and it seems a fitting end to a fine career for Calzaghe to face a boxing great such as Jones Jr. Calzaghe is a champion, an impressive one at that, and if he wishes to bow out of the sport by facing a fighter with an established reputation, then he has earnt the right to make that decision.

On October 18th Pavlik is due to fight Bernard Hopkins, Calzaghe’s previous opponent. If he is successful in this, he should continue to prove himself against decent fighters, dominating the middleweight division, and then concentrate on becoming a candidate for the best pound-for-pound fighter. If, after both of the fights, Calzaghe deems it necessary to square up against Pavlik, then that will be his decision. But if not, for critics to then make subjective claims about the reasons behind Calzaghe not taking the fight, is unfair on a fighter who has shown bravery throughout his career. To tarnish his legacy by calling him a coward shows a real lack of knowledge on Calzaghe as a fighter.

His bout against Roy Jones Jr. is said be his last, meaning he will be departing from the world of professional boxing at the top of his game, with the dignity and respect he deserves and most likely maintaining an undefeated record. But for now my message to Kelly Pavlik is stay away from Joe or lose your 0.

**Porter's Dad** · 10-03-2008, 10:21 PM

God, Enzo sounded like a ****ing **** in that interview. I know he comes across bad in most thing but dear me, that was terrible. What an absolute embarassment.

Joe is ducking Pavlik, plain and simple. I don't care what Abadger or Kris Silver will have to say - Joe has ducked Pavlik. There is NO reason that fight shouldn't be made - except Joe's fear of losing his 0.

I have no problem with people thinking Joe beats Pavlik. What I do have a problem with is people who say Joe "deserves" an easy pay day and to go out the way which is looking most likely.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:41 PM

Here's one which address' the hypocricy in alot of threads some have spoken of.

Calzaghe continues making himself look bad
by SC on Sep 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT

Remember when Joe Calzaghe said recently that he had offered Kelly Pavlik a fight after Calzaghe defeated Jeff Lacy?

And, see, I thought, "Wow, really? That's amazing that the super middleweight world champion would offer a title fight to a totally untested American middleweight that nobody had ever heard of."

Not that this would be totally out of wack for Joe Cool's career, the fighting competition that anyone would see and think, "Well that's not a very good opponent, is it?"

Plus, there's the fact that he's probably making that up entirely, and that it never happened. Pavlik says it never happened.

While hyping his upcoming fight with 39-year old Roy Jones, Jr., as "the real deal," Calzaghe took a moment to shoot some more B.S. toward Pavlik and crew.

"But let’s take nothing away from this fight. People talk about Kelly Pavlik, but who is he? In 10 years time nobody is going to care about him."

...

"Pavlik is an over-rated fighter, he can punch but he is one-dimensional."

Really nothing new, I know. But let's consider this deeper than just the words.

Remember when Pavlik won the middleweight championship from Jermain Taylor? Right about one year ago, Joe Calzaghe was all kinds of complimentary toward Pavlik, congratulating him on his win and inviting him to Cardiff as his guest for Calzaghe's fight with Mikkel Kessler. What's changed?

Calzaghe later goes on to say that Roy Jones has proven in his last three fights that he's back, and that "you're only as good as your last fight."

In Jones' last three fights, he's beaten Prince Badi Ajamu, Anthony Hanshaw and an old, washed-up, rusty, inflated, flabby Felix Trinidad. Ajamu and Hanshaw don't even get to enter that "10 years from now" argument -- they're more like 10 minutes from now no one will know who they are.

Pavlik has beaten Jermain Taylor in a slugfest, Jermain Taylor in a boxing match, and then he obliterated Gary Lockett to the degree that Calzaghe's father was forced to wave the white flag.

I get selling fights. I get the hype. What annoys me about these things is you can talk trash without making yourself look bad, can't you? Calzaghe struggles with this.

"He sucks, he's no good." So why did you supposedly want to fight him well before ANYONE knew who he was? Before Pavlik beat Miranda or Taylor or anyone except Fulgencio Zuniga, frankly, Calzaghe says he wanted to fight him. He wanted to fight a middleweight with no track record. What a man's man! What a champion!

Then he wanted to fight him a year ago when Pavlik won the middleweight championship, which came to nothing. Again, what a champion. What a credit to the sport.

Calzaghe does nothing but make himself look awful when he talks about Kelly Pavlik. Maybe he should stop, and focus on the Seniors Tour he's currently on. Then perhaps he can go back to talking about retiring, having accomplished all that is possible thanks to a handful of good wins, and I still consider Kessler the best victory of his career (not the biggest, which would be Hopkins, or the most important, which would be the genuinely overrated Jeff Lacy).

I try to like Joe because I think he's a super fighter, the best 168-pounder ever, and that he was too long not given enough credit by the American public and the American media. But he's kind of annoying. "Kind of" is an understatement lately.

He'll mop up the ancient Jones, retire, and come out of retirement to fight Pavlik. Then, win or lose, he'll go, "Ah, he was a tough opponent. He's a great fighter." He'll be great if Calzaghe decides to fight him. If Calzaghe doesn't, he won't be.

At this point, I hope for the fight and openly root for Kelly Pavlik to knock him out, which I'm not saying would be any easy task.

I guess my point is, do your hype RIGHT. Hype Jones on his last three fights. Maybe someone will buy into that. But don't include the far more impressive Kelly Pavlik and try to sell me on Prince Badi Ajamu over Jermain Taylor.

**roundingace** · 10-03-2008, 10:47 PM

More degrading Pavlik.

Enzo A Few Months Back