Do you give credit to Hopkins for beating Tito?

[El Dominicano]

To be absolutely honest I don't give Hopkins all that much credit for it. He boxed well but at the end of the day, Tito was a welterweight. Just my opinion.

Watch B-Hop vs William Joppy. B-Hop gave it his all to put Joppy away...while Tito had Joppy falling all over the place.

[abadger]

Tito was not "just a WW" though. He was also very dominant in his fights at 154 and had demonstrated that he could carry his power through to 160 with a crushing win over Joppy. It is very unfair on both Tito and Bernard to write Trinidad off as just a WW. Just because you are most effective at one class does not mean you cannot be a top class fighter at higher weights. Was Whitaker just a lightweight? Was SRL just a welterweight?

You're right, fighters can move up in weight and be successful, and Tito was, to a degree. I would say he was a quite successful MW, but not a very successful one, the difference being at MW he lost every time he faced a top class fighter, unlike at 147.

I also feel you have to factor in the actual matchup between the two fighters. Hopkins a big, top class MW, Trinidad a small, good one. When I watch that fight I see Hopkins boxing well primarily because his size advantage gave him everything his own way. I'm not trying to bash Bernard as I think he's very good, its just my personal view is that his Trinidad win gets a little too much play as being incredible, when really incredible would have been beating Roy Jones or something.

[Dan...]

You're right, fighters can move up in weight and be successful, and Tito was, to a degree. I would say he was a quite successful MW, but not a very successful one, the difference being at MW he lost every time he faced a top class fighter, unlike at 147.

I also feel you have to factor in the actual matchup between the two fighters. Hopkins a big, top class MW, Trinidad a small, good one. When I watch that fight I see Hopkins boxing well primarily because his size advantage gave him everything his own way. I'm not trying to bash Bernard as I think he's very good, its just my personal view is that his Trinidad win gets a little too much play as being incredible, when really incredible would have been beating Roy Jones or something.

Fair enough, although the issue is not whether it is an incredible win - it is simply whether he should be given credit for it, and I definately think he should. Sure Tito lost his two fights against top MWs, however the fight against Wright can simply be attributed to a horible style matchup for Tito.

Sure Bernard's size advantage gave him a considerable advantage over Tito in that fight, but its not the first time a guy had a very good win with a size advantage. The bottom line is he took on a prime p4p fighter who had demonstrated that he still had KO power at 160 - the thing that had made him so successful as a welter and jr MW. It is a very very good win for Hopkins.

[abadger]

Fair enough, although the issue is not whether it is an incredible win - it is simply whether he should be given credit for it, and I definately think he should. Sure Tito lost his two fights against top MWs, however the fight against Wright can simply be attributed to a horible style matchup for Tito.

Sure Bernard's size advantage gave him a considerable advantage over Tito in that fight, but its not the first time a guy had a very good win with a size advantage. The bottom line is he took on a prime p4p fighter who had demonstrated that he still had KO power at 160 - the thing that had made him so successful as a welter and jr MW. It is a very very good win for Hopkins.

In that case, yes, I give Hopkins credit, its just a question of how much. It is my perception that the Trinidad win is the one that above all others gives Bernard his 'rep', but to me with the luxurious benefit of hindsight, there is simply no way that fight could ever have been anything other than a Hopkins win, and so I struggle to give the same amount of credit for it that I believe others do.

[El Dominicano]

Guyz iT NOT even about that. B-Hop stylistically beat Tito...In no way did B-Hop use his size. Even B-Hop understood what Tito's power is capable of.

[Dan...]

In that case, yes, I give Hopkins credit, its just a question of how much. It is my perception that the Trinidad win is the one that above all others gives Bernard his 'rep', but to me with the luxurious benefit of hindsight, there is simply no way that fight could ever have been anything other than a Hopkins win, and so I struggle to give the same amount of credit for it that I believe others do.

Sure in hindsight after Tito's stunningly quick fall from grace the win has some shine taken off, but you need to be careful about how much you factor that in. It needs to be considered that BHop was in his mid 30s, Tito looked like an unbeatable beast and Hopkins was a significant dog going into the fight. It might be easy to overstate how good a win it is but IMO it is also easy to understate its significance by simply using the "blown up welter" train of thought.

[Dan...]

Guyz iT NOT even about that. B-Hop stylistically beat Tito...In no way did B-Hop use his size. Even B-Hop understood what Tito's power is capable of.

Whilst he did defeat Tito stylistically there is no doubt that BHop imposed his size advantage extremely effectively on Trinidad in that fight.

[abadger]

Sure in hindsight after Tito's stunningly quick fall from grace the win has some shine taken off, but you need to be careful about how much you factor that in. It needs to be considered that BHop was in his mid 30s, Tito looked like an unbeatable beast and Hopkins was a significant dog going into the fight. It might be easy to overstate how good a win it is but IMO it is also easy to understate its significance by simply using the "blown up welter" train of thought.

Maybe. I'm laughing now because in all fairness Trinidad was probably one of the best MWs Hopkins faced in his whole career, or at least one who had proven world class ability and thus the chance to bring it to his new weight, though in my view he was not able to do this.

[El Dominicano]

Whilst he did defeat Tito stylistically there is no doubt that BHop imposed his size advantage extremely effectively on Trinidad in that fight.

When? What round? Never did that happen. B-Hop simply tied him up threw to the head/body and continued to box. He never imposed his size on him...B-Hop gave Tito more respect then he did Antwun Echols. B-Hop didn't even go for the K.O in the final round it was Tito who jumped on him. His mission was to outbox him and Tito played into his plan.

[El Dominicano]

Tito has alwayz been weak against the Jab. Or a defensive counter puncher. The reason Tito was successful against the likez of Pernell Whitaker was because Pernell was 5'5 1/2 and needed to get on the inside to win...ofcourse in Pernell's prime he wouldn't have had to do that. Even B-Hop knew Tito was weak against the jab. B-Hop did a masterful performance while YES! it was a bad style match up for Tito. Keep in mind Tito was the heavier guy in that fight.