Calzaghe, jones and pavlik

[Clegg]

Roy is shot.

The reason he sometimes looks like he isn't is because he can sometimes still do things that he could do in prime. The difference is that he can only do it a few times per fight. A flashy combo here, a one punch knock down there. It looks good in a youtube highlight video, but not if you watch all 12 rounds.

In the Glenn Johnson fight, he had someone who did not have great power, speed or skill. Roy lost almost every round and was KO'D.

Johnson is a good fighter, but prime Roy would have dominated him. Shot Roy had about 2/3 minutes of the fight, and got beat up the rest of the time.

[bsrizpac]

Roy is shot.

The reason he sometimes looks like he isn't is because he can sometimes still do things that he could do in prime. The difference is that he can only do it a few times per fight. A flashy combo here, a one punch knock down there. It looks good in a youtube highlight video, but not if you watch all 12 rounds.

In the Glenn Johnson fight, he had someone who did not have great power, speed or skill. Roy lost almost every round and was KO'D.

Johnson is a good fighter, but prime Roy would have dominated him. Shot Roy had about 2/3 minutes of the fight, and got beat up the rest of the time.

100 percent dead on. Everyone read and re-read this. Especially anyone trying to pump up Roy to make someone else look better.

This is a nice money fight. Joe always wanted to do it. Good for him, he's earned a nice ending to his career. But legacy defining? Who was better in their prime? Who had a better career? No. This fight has nothing to do with that.

[bsrizpac]

The problem with the "styles make fights" argument being used to pump up Jones over Pavlik is that it could still be used regardless of what their condition or age is. Jones could be 50 or 60 and you could still say his "style" is a difficult matchup for Joe, even if he can only execute it for two rounds before passing out in a puddle of his own urine.

I don't care what someone's style is, if they're no longer sharp enough to execute it at a top level, then they won't be effective against another top level fighter. There are SERIOUS doubts about Roy's ability to execute at this point - we all have them, even Joe has them.

Yup. Another dead on post. But of course Dirk will repeat the "styles make fights" because it fights his obvious agenda. Roy's "style" will only work for the 20 seconds a round he might be capable of fighting at this point.

Cue : the "But they are around similar ages"...argument

[S.G.]

in 20 years time, Roy Jones' name on Calzaghe's resume will look better to the vast majority of people than Kelly Pavlik's name on his resume... the opportunity to record a W over an ATG is one no one can pass up, regardless of their age

Marciano gets props for beating Walcott by most

i agree Roy Jones is tricky stylistically, but i'll only be able to judge whether he's currently still a harder fight for Joe than Pavlik is when the fight is done and we see just how much Roy had left in him.

idealy i would like JC to fight them both, and call me an optimist but i think he will take the Pavlik fight so long as they both get past their respective opponents

[bsrizpac]

in 20 years time, Roy Jones' name on Calzaghe's resume will look better to the vast majority of people than Kelly Pavlik's name on his resume... the opportunity to record a W over an ATG is one no one can pass up, regardless of their age

Marciano gets props for beating Walcott by most

i agree Roy Jones is tricky stylistically, but i'll only be able to judge whether he's currently still a harder fight for Joe than Pavlik is when the fight is done and we see just how much Roy had left in him.

idealy i would like JC to fight them both, and call me an optimist but i think he will take the Pavlik fight so long as they both get past their respective opponents

Yup. And that's just a sad fact of boxing.

[Clegg]

in 20 years time, Roy Jones' name on Calzaghe's resume will look better to the vast majority of people than Kelly Pavlik's name on his resume... the opportunity to record a W over an ATG is one no one can pass up, regardless of their age

Marciano gets props for beating Walcott by most

i agree Roy Jones is tricky stylistically, but i'll only be able to judge whether he's currently still a harder fight for Joe than Pavlik is when the fight is done and we see just how much Roy had left in him.

idealy i would like JC to fight them both, and call me an optimist but i think he will take the Pavlik fight so long as they both get past their respective opponents

We don't know how well Pavlik will turn out. If he loses to Hopkins, no one will care, but if he wins and goes on to become a great fighter...

But look at it like this: which name would be worth more on Benn's resume, Roberto Duran or Gerald McClellan? For me it's the latter. A prime champion from who may or may not go on to become an ATG, but who looks pretty damn good right now. Obviously the fight had a tragic ending, but everyone knows McClellan was better than Duran at that point, and so avoiding the hard punching world-class fighter in favour of the aging legend would not be viewed well by historians.

[dstew]

in 20 years time, Roy Jones' name on Calzaghe's resume will look better to the vast majority of people than Kelly Pavlik's name on his resume... the opportunity to record a W over an ATG is one no one can pass up, regardless of their age

Marciano gets props for beating Walcott by most

Yeah, but how much credit does Berbick still get for beating a 39 year old Ali?

[Addition]

Roy is shot.

The reason he sometimes looks like he isn't is because he can sometimes still do things that he could do in prime. The difference is that he can only do it a few times per fight. A flashy combo here, a one punch knock down there. It looks good in a youtube highlight video, but not if you watch all 12 rounds.

In the Glenn Johnson fight, he had someone who did not have great power, speed or skill. Roy lost almost every round and was KO'D.

Johnson is a good fighter, but prime Roy would have dominated him. Shot Roy had about 2/3 minutes of the fight, and got beat up the rest of the time.

Clegg, you ALWAYS speak the truth.

[Steak]

Yeah, but how much credit does Berbick still get for beating a 39 year old Ali?

great point. Robinson lost a lot when he was shot, and I cant name one of those fighters that did it, so obviously they didnt get a lot of credit.

Roy is shot.

The reason he sometimes looks like he isn't is because he can sometimes still do things that he could do in prime. The difference is that he can only do it a few times per fight. A flashy combo here, a one punch knock down there. It looks good in a youtube highlight video, but not if you watch all 12 rounds.

In the Glenn Johnson fight, he had someone who did not have great power, speed or skill. Roy lost almost every round and was KO'D.

Johnson is a good fighter, but prime Roy would have dominated him. Shot Roy had about 2/3 minutes of the fight, and got beat up the rest of the time.

this basically sums up the whole debate. good job.

[Clegg]

Lol thanks guys.