The MMA Walls are Closing in on Boxing

[pugilistfan]

Hey boxing fans, don't act like UFC fans who spit on boxing all the time. Show some class and respect towards other combat sports. Showing respect will make MMA fans look childish in their insults on boxing.

Kickboxing and muay thai have been around forever, yet boxing fans never talked trash on those sports, mainly because they were never marketed well in the U.S.

The UFC does something very good that boxing does not - they stack their undercards with great competitive matchups. This makes buying a ppv show less of a risk than boxing - if the UFC main event stinks, more than likely one or two of the undercard fights will be great and make the purchase worth it. A boxing ppv, if the main event stinks, you're out of luck, and you're lucky to begin with if you even get to see an undercard fight. Part of that has to do with the UFC being able to afford great undercards as the fighters have lower salaries, but it is what it is...MMA fighters are not spoiled on ppv money as boxers are.

Most MMA fans do not know what they are looking at when they watch a boxing fight, just like many boxing fans don't know what they are seeing in an MMA fight until you spend time understanding what you're seeing. Given that, I just don't see how MMA fans used to 15 minute fights can sit through a 45-minute Winky Wright fight.

A lot of punching in MMA looks weird because they cannot use a boxing stance or they'll get tackled to the ground instantly. A lot come from kickboxing backgrounds and a boxing stance doesn't lend itself to throwing kicks or defending the takedowns. Plus, while those with a kickboxing background can throw down pretty good, those with wrestling or judo backgrounds (where most mma fighters come from, NCAA wrestling in particular) tend to be sloppy with punching. That is to be expected though, you can't expect someone who never threw a punch in his life before age 25 to suddenly be a boxing wizard.

Sorry but completely false.

Most of the MMA fighters come from wrestling, BJJ backgrounds not STRIKING. The best strikers in the world are in boxing, Muay Thai making GREAT MONEY.

Muay Thai stance leaves you more vulnerable for takedowns than a traditional boxing stance and its the reason why so many wrestlers are turning to BOXING as their primary striking discipline. They dont want to be on their back. Its the same reason why BJJ guys enjoy Muay Thai because they like being on their back.

All this MMA fighters suck at striking because the stances are different is complete and utter BS. They arent great at striking because many of them have no prior fighting background and if they did it was in wrestling and BJJ and not STRIKING. Many of them have absolutely no amateur boxing experience and the ones who do have great amatuer and professional boxing experience end up faring very well. Look no further than Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle, Jeremy Williams, Jamie Varner who are considered fantastic strikers in MMA. Its no secret that the ones who have striking backgrounds translate their skills quite well to MMA. Its because most of the skills are APPLICABLE.

And in terms of the UFC, for the most part they fill the undercards with TUF guys who have a name or fighters coming off losses. How many title fights do we get each card? ONE. Look at this upcoming Silva/Cote card. The undercard is mediocre at best. Im not going to lie boxing undercards are for the most part not intriguing and lack the star power. But you still get some great fights. Katsidis/Amonsot. Linares/Larios etc.

Ive always said boxing needs a huge makeover. If they can make Cott/Gomez, Margarito/Cintron or Pavlik/Taylor, Gamboa, Tsurkan/Angulo type cards FREE ON HBO boxing will be FANTASTIC. But currently it lacks creativity and has absolutely no marketing behind it. UFC ads are everywhere. I cant take a crap without seeing one.

Boxing needs people who care about the sport, not the DLH's of the world who put Pavlik/Hopkins fights on PPV for $50. Because, if they continue to do it, boxing will never grow.

[potatoes]

by T.K. Stewart - There has been much discussion recently about what the future of boxing is going to be. The doomsayers tell you that for boxing the end is near, that it can’t compete with the mixed martial arts and that boxing fans are just a bunch of old people hanging onto a sport that is clinging to the coat tails of the past.

Those who prefer MMA tell you that it is exciting, that it appeals to a younger demographic and that the future for that sport has unlimited potential.

I make no effort to hide the fact that I will forever be in boxing’s corner. It’s not that I dislike MMA or have anything against it. It’s just that my taste, plain and simple, is for boxing. I am sure that many of those who support MMA will tell you the same thing, it’s not that they dislike boxing - it’s just that their preference is MMA. I’ve tried watching different MMA programs, I really have, but I just cannot develop an affinity for it.

The issue as I see it, is that you can’t compare the two sports. People like to make the comparison because boxing and MMA are sports that pit fighters against each other, but as far as I can see, that is the only similarity. Professional wrestling fans are not necessarily MMA fans are they?

To compare boxing and MMA is like comparing tennis to ping pong or football to rugby. Boxing and MMA are two totally different sports with different fan demographics, different rules and just because you are a fan of one does not mean that you will be (or will not be) a fan of the other.

Because you may be a fan of “American Idol” does not mean that you will tune into “So, You Think You Can Dance?” Similar reality programs to be sure, but not exactly the same. [details]

The reason that this mma garbage is popular with the fans is the same reason that sluggers are more popular than pure boxers. The fans like blood and guts with minimal skills and maximum violence. The untrained and unskilled street thugs in mma give the fans what they want.

[pugilistfan]

If dry humping you mean grappling.

Sign me up!!

I'm sorry but theres a reason why BJJ and wrestling cant survive on its own. Its because nobody really cares about it.

Obviously, there are quite a few differences in MMA but you will find the majority of MMA fans just want to see violent KO's and quickly. Thats why most of them cant watch a brilliantly technical 36 minute boxing fight between fighters that have been mastering their craft in the amatuer and pro ranks for 20 years.

Boxing may not ever overtake MMA in America, but I dont necessarily think its a bad thing. MMA is the new toughman competition. The Butterbeans of the world arent going to boxing, they are going to MMA.

[pugilistfan]

The reason that this mma garbage is popular with the fans is the same reason that sluggers are more popular than pure boxers. The fans like blood and guts with minimal skills and maximum violence. The untrained and unskilled street thugs in mma give the fans what they want.

I cant argue about that.

There are obviously your hardcore MMA fanbase but the majority of the fanbase is exactly what you described. Look at that elitexc card in May. You had 2 fighters measuring each other up, looking for holes and within 2 minutes the crowd was booing.

[pugilistfan]

Sam Vasquez by subderal hemmorage after being knocked out last April. It was taken quite well. Nobody blamed nobody and everyone did their job to the fullest.

And we are regulated by athletic commissions.

That was on a lower promotion though. If someone died on the main event of a big UFC card there would definitely be some backlash.

But honestly I dont see it ever really happening. It shouldnt even happen in a sport like Muay Thai or boxing which can be absolutely brutal. Its just referee and sanctioning body incompetence. If you look at the majority of deaths in boxing/Muay Thai most of them involved lower weight classes with fighters who had to cut a ridiculous amount of weight.

[mrpain81]

Pugilistfan laying down the law

Agree with all your posts

[pugilistfan]

I am an lifelong fan of boxing and have become a fan of mma. But i do feel if boxing was restructured in more of an mma fashion that it would regain the type of fan base it had in its hey day. One belt per devision. A centralized governing body. There should be more of a tourney style in each devision. The champion shouldnt fight anyone outside the top ten in his weight class. I find myself sometimes more willing to watch mma just to get away from the politics that have infected boxing. Because one thing i do know about mma is that if you hear two fighters on tv talking **** to one another you can best believe that those two will be in the ring with each other within a couple of months.

Fedor/Couture?????

Trust me alot of fights that should happen in MMA dont happen for the same reason as boxing. In MMA there are multiple organizations and almost none of them are willing to co-promote.

The UFC have the majority of the best fighters in the sport but NOT all of them. And as a result we arent seeing the best fights that can be made.

[pugilistfan]

you don't know what you are talking about. the champions in every division are good punchers, kickers and ground fighters. any fighter thats ONLY good at one of those things doesn't last long in the sport. MMA fighters are the best street fighters. stop being in denial. You aren't gonna be any less of a person if you just accept reality.

False,

You dont have to be well-rounded to be good in MMA. Look no further than Lesnar, Koscheck, Hughes, Sherk, Edgar, Crocop, Hunt, Guida, Huerta, Aoki, Sylvia, Okami, Lindland. All of whom are one-dimensional.

Wrestlers dominate MMA because MMA is tailored to ground fighting. That is why you have Brock Lesnar who is using his athleticism and collegiate wrestling background to rack up wins over quality opponents in the best MMA organization in the world.

What works in MMA MAY not work in a street fight. You ask any MMA fighter including Couture, Gracie, Penn and they will tell you that STRIKING is actually more practical in a REAL FIGHT than any ground discipline. Last thing you want to be doing is rolling around with a guy trying to secure a submission. Its a great way to get stomped on by others or your eyes raked out of your socket.

If MMA fighters were the best street fighters, Tito Ortiz wouldnt have lost to middleweight one-dimensional kickboxer in Lee Murray in a REAL FIGHT.

Real fights are COMPLETELY unpredictable and MMA is far from being similar to a REAL FIGHT.

Boxing and MMA are sports, combat sports that operate under different rulesets.

[classicbuzzbox]

MMA is just another sport to watch. I love boxing and I love Muay Thai and while I'm sure a boxer could enter a full Muay Thai rules fight it might not be a great idea. They are different sports and they are both exciting to watch. I've seen a fair bit of UFC and I think a big problem with it for watching as a spectator is how much ends up on the ground. Sure the guys are incredibly talented at performing their ground tactics... as far as I can tell anyway with all the moving from half guard to full guard action, but at the end of the day it's not a great event to watch alot of the time for me and others I've talked to. Saying boxing is going to die because fans will leave boxing to watch MMA means the ones that will leave weren't core boxing fans in the first place. If MMA has what you crave as a fan it's only natural you are going to give up on boxing because they are two completely different sports.

[neils7147933]

Umm...your precious "browns" have dominated MMA since the beginning of the sport.

UFC breakdown:
Heavyweight champ - Brazilian (or "brown" for those who like that racist term).
205 champ - used to be Rampage, black, now Forrest who will fight Rashad, black, in his next fight.
185 champ - Brazilian, does not speak English.
170 champ - French Canadian, not American, white.
155 champ - BJ Penn, Hawaiian and some asian mix.

Just 2 out of 5 are white. Two champs out of five. Don't play the ******* race card when you don't know what you are talking about. And that does not even include MMA in Japan and other organizations, that's just taking into account the UFC.

Heck the original winner of UFC 1 was a Brazilian.

If the UFC is not black enough for you, it's because most MMA fighters come from NCAA wrestling backgrounds and kickboxing backgrounds, not sports that generally attract non-whites for some reason.

Boxing...Evander Holyfield held stratospheric ppv records, as did Tyson, both because they were ass kickers and aggressive and who do you think was buying those 1 million ppv's? They were not, as the author says in his article, the types we have too many of today who do as little as possible to win. People couldn't care less what Evander's skin color was in his prime, they tuned in because of how he fought. The same with Mike Tyson (now there was an example of marketing done right in boxing).

Last, boxing has whites all over and it always has. Calzaghe, Pavlik, Hatton, Wlad and in fact whites dominate the heavyweight division in boxing now (which is why the ******* media likes to say that boxing's heavyweight division sucks right now), Kessler, and the list can go on. There is a reason for that too...

...now that American boxers can no longer run and hide from Europe's and Russia's best, we are seeing more integration in boxing. An influx of new talent is always welcome.

You will notice most of this board has 3 or 4 MMA disses, those who aren't educated buy into it, and an incorrect perception is out there.

Good post, but likely a waste of time...