Carl Froch...Most avoided Fighter?? or Overhyped british prospect??

[abadger]

You and Abadger say that Taylor's overrated, hence Pavlik's overrated it likely means that Kessler's rated higher on your guys p4p lists. That warms my danish heart

I nearly feel an urge to bump my comparisonthread of Kessler and Pavlik......

If the P4P list were based purely on talent or 'who would beat who', Kessler would be very high on mine indeed.

[T-97]

You and Abadger say that Taylor's overrated, hence Pavlik's overrated it likely means that Kessler's rated higher on your guys p4p lists. That warms my danish heart

I nearly feel an urge to bump my comparisonthread of Kessler and Pavlik......

I think Kessler is over-all a better fighter than Kelly Pavlik. Maybe Kelly edges it in Heart and Power (I havn't seen Kessler fight through any real trouble, If I am wrong let me know). He is better technically, and is a very good boxer,

I think he needs to step up to get big exposure sometime soon, and fight a big name in the (I hate to say it..) US. Someone like Miranda would have been very good, but after being KTFO by Abraham, he needs to find someone else.

[abadger]

I think Kessler is over-all a better fighter than Kelly Pavlik. Maybe Kelly edges it in Heart and Power (I havn't seen Kessler fight through any real trouble, If I am wrong let me know). He is better technically, and is a very good boxer,

I think he needs to step up to get big exposure sometime soon, and fight a big name in the (I hate to say it..) US. Someone like Miranda would have been very good, but after being KTFO by Abraham, he needs to find someone else.

I just realised the perfect fight for Kessler is Arthur Abraham, on HBO. Abraham is already halfway to fighting Pavlik so Kessler should just twat him. That would force the issue somewhat.

Also, they could call it "The War In Europe" or some ****.

[BattlingNelson]

its funny how you say that but if someone mentions calzaghe fighting jones over pavlik for money then everybody kicks off.

Joe fights for legacy as well and is near the end.

[BattlingNelson]

I just realised the perfect fight for Kessler is Arthur Abraham, on HBO. Abraham is already halfway to fighting Pavlik so Kessler should just twat him. That would force the issue somewhat.

Also, they could call it "The War In Europe" or some ****.

If Kessler vs. Calzaghe did poor in the states AA vs. Kess. would likely do worse.

[T-97]

I just realised the perfect fight for Kessler is Arthur Abraham, on HBO. Abraham is already halfway to fighting Pavlik so Kessler should just twat him. That would force the issue somewhat.

Also, they could call it "The War In Europe" or some ****.

That would be a very good fight, one that could go either way really. Who do you think would take it?

I think Kessler may take it by Decision.

[abadger]

If Kessler vs. Calzaghe did poor in the states AA vs. Kess. would likely do worse.

I think it would set record breakingly low numbers. I doubt America's appetite for clashes between German-Armenians and Danes. However, since everyone involved is already richer than I will ever be, I don't care. Lets get Abraham out of the way so Kessler can fight Pavlik! Short term sacrifice for long term gain.

Also, kessler should sign with golden boy or something, I bet they would love to have him. You should tell him Bat.

[abadger]

That would be a very good fight, one that could go either way really. Who do you think would take it?

I think Kessler may take it by Decision.

I agree. I don't know if Abrahams style would be very suitable for fighting Kessler. You can't do your turtle explosion if your opponent keeps hitting you and getting out of range again, which is what I think Kessler would do.

[T-97]

I agree. I don't know if Abrahams style would be very suitable for fighting Kessler. You can't do your turtle explosion if your opponent keeps hitting you and getting out of range again, which is what I think Kessler would do.

I have not seen a lot of Abraham, but what I have seen....well I don't like him a lot. He seems to just shell up loads and then explode with his power shots. I think Kessler would out work him to a UD. Abraham wouldn't be able to just catch Kessler with his shots like he has against the other guys I seen him fight, Kessler has a pretty good defense.

[Jimmy Dean]

This is very interesting to me, because you guys aren't all nuthugging, America hating fanatics like myself, this is actually the first time I've heard you really talking about how highly you rate these boxers. In particular I'm quite surprised by T's low opinion of Taylor, I had you down as a 'go with the flow' kind of guy, i didn't really expect you to hold controversial opinions, no offense intended at all.

My own view is that Jermain Taylor gets an awful lot of mileage out of his Hopkins wins, though is clearly a credible top level boxer, and as a result Pavlik gets far too much mileage out of his pair of victories over Taylor. I don't know what you guys think, but in particular I find the 'Pavlik is far more proven and has achieved more than Kessler' argument to be borderline ludicrous. At the end of the day its close between them, Kessler was a double world champion ages ago, beating guys better than everyone but Taylor on Pav's resume. One win, over one opponent, no matter how supposedly great (and in Taylor's case this is arguable) is not enough to say one guy is more accomplished than another when that other guy has held more titles, defended them more times and effectively cleared out his division. To think so requires us to view boxing in a distorted fashion.

Another thing about this is that it is not even clear that Pavlik is the best MW. He beat the man who beat the man sure, but its a little different when the original man was getting a bit old for his weight class and the man you beat has at least questionable ability. I would use a similar argument about Calzaghe at LHW, has he really proven himself to be the best LHW? I certainly don't think so. At the end of the day since winning the title Pavlik has defended it once, against a B-level fighter. How does that prove you are the best fighter ina division, especially when somone like Abraham shares it with
you. Abraham was hugely impressive in his KO win over Miranda.

If we're talking about ranking the two guys, I'd insert Taylor anywhere from 2 - 5 at SMW, the only thing clear there is that Kessler is #1. With Pavlik he can keep his #1 rank at MW, but I wouldn't have him in my P4P top ten at all. Beating Jermain Taylor alone is not good enough for that. Look at someone like Nonito Donaire, he handed much decorated and undefeated Vic Darchinyan his first loss and only makes the fringes. The same should happen to Kelly Pavlik until he fights and beats more quality boxers. Beating one opponent is a victory, not a resume.

I know I'll likely get accused of all kinds of bias for this post, but its really what i think, and if you notice, I don't strongly come down in favour of any fighter, my views are actually more of a complaint about doing exactly that.

I didn't read this but I bet Calzaghe's name is mentioned.

Actually, it wasn't.

found it...