The True P4P List?

[abadger]

I think that 'Pound for Pound' ratings have changed their meaning. It used to be understood as 'If all boxers were the same size, who would be the best?', or 'who would beat who?'. These days most lists seem like unofficial all-weights ranking systems, based primarily on results, with great boxers falling off after losses and even quite average ones getting ranked after single big wins. I can see the merits of both systems, but would like to know who you all think are the most talented boxers out there. Of course, 'talent' doesn't have to mean 'technical skill' it can be simply being good at what you do.

So, wins, losses and resume aside, who are the top ten truly Pound for Pound boxers in the world today, the ones who if all sizes were equal, would be the hardest to beat?

[JAB5239]

I think that 'Pound for Pound' ratings have changed their meaning. It used to be understood as 'If all boxers were the same size, who would be the best?', or 'who would beat who?'. These days most lists seem like unofficial all-weights ranking systems, based primarily on results, with great boxers falling off after losses and even quite average ones getting ranked after single big wins. I can see the merits of both systems, but would like to know who you all think are the most talented boxers out there. Of course, 'talent' doesn't have to mean 'technical skill' it can be simply being good at what you do.

So, wins, losses and resume aside, who are the top ten truly Pound for Pound boxers in the world today, the ones who if all sizes were equal, would be the hardest to beat?

Pac
Cal
Izzy
JMM
Raf
Pav
B-Hop
Mijares
Margarito
Cotto

[!! Shawn]

This is why I have had Calderon as my #1 p4p for quite a while.

[miron_lang]

Actual Results > Assumptions


Sam : FIGHTER A is the best because he is Fast and strong

Pedro : NO! FIGTHER B is the best because he's agility and boxing skills is 2nd to none

Juan Dela Cruz : FIGHTER C is the best because he beats the best of his division

[abadger]

Actual Results > Assumptions


Sam : FIGHTER A is the best because he is Fast and strong

Pedro : NO! FIGTHER B is the best because he's agility and boxing skills is 2nd to none

Juan Dela Cruz : FIGHTER C is the best because he beats the best of his division

True, but I am asking what fighters posters here do assume to be better. Fighters from different weight classes never actually fight each other, and IMO rating them on talent is just as valid as rating them on who they beat in their own divisions. Margarito's win over Cotto probably trumps anything on Ivan Calderon's resume, but is he really a better boxer? Point is there are assumptions on both sides.

[miron_lang]

Without the Resume , all sizes were equal and at their Prime


1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Oscar Dela Hoya
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Joe Calzaghe
9. Kelly Pavlik
10. Joan Guzman

[Dan...]

True, but I am asking what fighters posters here do assume to be better. Fighters from different weight classes never actually fight each other, and IMO rating them on talent is just as valid as rating them on who they beat in their own divisions. Margarito's win over Cotto probably trumps anything on Ivan Calderon's resume, but is he really a better boxer? Point is there are assumptions on both sides.

I see what you are getting at badger. Personally I think you place a lot of emphasis on technical abilities, which is fine, but I think it is important to acknowledge that there are a lot of other factors and important intangibles that add what a fighter brings to the table. Noone would argue that Calderon is not a technically better boxer than Margarito p4p, but the question becomes whether Margarito's tenacity, stamina and chin overcome that disadvantage.

Personally I think p4p lists are constructed on the basis of accomplishments and recent resume simply because it is too difficult for it to be done any other way. Would Manny's speed and power be enough to overcome Calzaghe's technical and tactial superiority? How the **** should I know. What I do know is that over the last few years Manny has the advantage in terms of competition faced and competition beaten. That is why he is my p4p #1.

[abadger]

I see what you are getting at badger. Personally I think you place a lot of emphasis on technical abilities, which is fine, but I think it is important to acknowledge that there are a lot of other factors and important intangibles that add what a fighter brings to the table. Noone would argue that Calderon is not a technically better boxer than Margarito p4p, but the question becomes whether Margarito's tenacity, stamina and chin overcome that disadvantage.

Personally I think p4p lists are constructed on the basis of accomplishments and recent resume simply because it is too difficult for it to be done any other way. Would Manny's speed and power be enough to overcome Calzaghe's technical and tactial superiority? How the **** should I know. What I do know is that over the last few years Manny has the advantage in terms of competition faced and competition beaten. That is why he is my p4p #1.

Haha. We've had this debate a few times eh? Anyway, here isn't the place for us to debate it, as my intention is not to pimp my views on the issue. I just want to know who people think are the best boxers at what they do and who would beat who in hypothetical matchups. The removal of resume means any boxer even inexperienced ones can get in, though i find this type of list very hard to compile, you would need to watch a ton of boxing!

Anyway, I can't manage ten but some boxers who i think would be in my talent P4P are (in no order):

Pacquiao
Kessler
Calzaghe
Mijares
N. Donaire
Calderon
JM Marquez

I am debating whether i could find a place for Maragarito, he is one of my favourite boxers and something of a beast, but could I imagine a load of boxers from other weightclasses beating him if they were the same size, I think I could!

[Dan...]

Yeah I just think it is too hard to think about p4p matchups so to speak between fighters in ridiculously different weight classes.

Notice though, that you can make very legitimate arguments for each of the guys you mentioned being on the conventional p4p list.

[KILLA RIGHT]

Cal
Jmm
Rafa M
Mijares
Vasquez
Pavlik
P Williams
Guzman
Cotto
Margarito