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Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao - It is What it Is

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  • #11
    Deeply disappointed in this article

    I can say that I ALWAYS look forward to a T.K. Stewart article, I think he's one of the best writers on the boxing pages today, and I've always felt safe in quoting him to reinforce my position. BUT I believe that this article is like a PR "snow job" and it has so bothered me. I normally don't get bothered by anything that ANYONE writes, writer or poster, but this, for me, seems more like a "press release" by the PR crappers hired by the promoters, instead of a meaningful article by one of our best writers.

    "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog" he writes, but what the hell does that really mean in the context of this fight. This implies strongly, that after a few Manny P left handers, Oscar is going to cower down, tuck his tail between his legs and run away.

    We ALL know that this is NOT going to happen.

    The analogies made between Sugar Ray, supposedly the best ever, against Joey Maxim, cannot be used, since they were approximately the same size if not the same weight, (a 15 lb difference) and Ray's skills and punch were far superior to the plodding Maxim.

    Carmen Basilio against Gene Fulmer, yes , he was the same HEIGHT as Manny, but was ALWAYS a WELTERWEIGHT from his very first fight, a completely different build and body structure. Not only that, but he'd already had 5-6 fights at middlweight, INCLUDING TWO (1 win 1 loss but both 15 rounders) against the great Sugar Ray Robinson.


    As for Bob Foster-Joe Frazier, Foster was 6'3" with an 80" reach, and when he fought Frazier he'd already defended his Lt-Heavy title 5 times, and after Frazier, he defended another 11 times. Not only that, he even went 8 rounds with Muhammed Ali. Frazier KO'd him in the second, but think....of his 8 losses, 6 were by KO. He had a NOTORIOUSLY fragile chin. But he was a very big man, and as a lt-heavy, he was an all-time great.

    With none of these fights was there the huge difference in SIZE... REACH.... HEIGHT... and weights fought at. Considering that the lightest of the mentioned great fighters, Basilio, was 145lbs and only went up- to middleweight, GRADUALLY.

    When you look at Manny, at 5'6" weight 135 (Just once in his life, having started at 106) a reach of 67" against Oscar, who is over 5' 10" with a reach of 73", and is classified as a light-middleweight, but who, as we know, has won a middleweight world title.

    I deliberately omitted Hank Armstrong, since he was "one of a kind", in modern day boxing anyway, able, with his non-stop windmill punching, to overcome enormous barriers. He actually, when Featherweight Champ was able to successfully win the Welter Title, and then go down to win the Lightweight Title.

    But he stayed at lightweight for most of his career even when fighting welterweights, although towards the end, his weight did increase a bit.

    I'd be delighted if Manny could emulate Henry Armstrong, but .........ARMSTRONG could do it..............and Manny Pacquiao is NO Henry Armstrong. Not yet anyway.

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    • #12
      AND...I forgot to mention...

      Sugar Ray didn't take as much of a chance as it seemed. Maxim had an 18 year career, and was near the end. He lost his title in his very next fight to Archie Moore. After Robinson, he had 15 more fights until his career end, of which he won only FOUR.

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      • #13
        No offence to that writer, but I strongly disagree with the views expressed.

        I was going to comment on the article, but edgarg has said everything that I wanted to say, but better than I could've managed it.

        Great post

        Comment


        • #14
          Originally posted by edgarg View Post
          I can say that I ALWAYS look forward to a T.K. Stewart article, I think he's one of the best writers on the boxing pages today, and I've always felt safe in quoting him to reinforce my position. BUT I believe that this article is like a PR "snow job" and it has so bothered me. I normally don't get bothered by anything that ANYONE writes, writer or poster, but this, for me, seems more like a "press release" by the PR crappers hired by the promoters, instead of a meaningful article by one of our best writers.

          "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog" he writes, but what the hell does that really mean in the context of this fight. This implies strongly, that after a few Manny P left handers, Oscar is going to cower down, tuck his tail between his legs and run away.

          We ALL know that this is NOT going to happen.

          The analogies made between Sugar Ray, supposedly the best ever, against Joey Maxim, cannot be used, since they were approximately the same size if not the same weight, (a 15 lb difference) and Ray's skills and punch were far superior to the plodding Maxim.

          Carmen Basilio against Gene Fulmer, yes , he was the same HEIGHT as Manny, but was ALWAYS a WELTERWEIGHT from his very first fight, a completely different build and body structure. Not only that, but he'd already had 5-6 fights at middlweight, INCLUDING TWO (1 win 1 loss but both 15 rounders) against the great Sugar Ray Robinson.


          As for Bob Foster-Joe Frazier, Foster was 6'3" with an 80" reach, and when he fought Frazier he'd already defended his Lt-Heavy title 5 times, and after Frazier, he defended another 11 times. Not only that, he even went 8 rounds with Muhammed Ali. Frazier KO'd him in the second, but think....of his 8 losses, 6 were by KO. He had a NOTORIOUSLY fragile chin. But he was a very big man, and as a lt-heavy, he was an all-time great.

          With none of these fights was there the huge difference in SIZE... REACH.... HEIGHT... and weights fought at. Considering that the lightest of the mentioned great fighters, Basilio, was 145lbs and only went up- to middleweight, GRADUALLY.

          When you look at Manny, at 5'6" weight 135 (Just once in his life, having started at 106) a reach of 67" against Oscar, who is over 5' 10" with a reach of 73", and is classified as a light-middleweight, but who, as we know, has won a middleweight world title.

          I deliberately omitted Hank Armstrong, since he was "one of a kind", in modern day boxing anyway, able, with his non-stop windmill punching, to overcome enormous barriers. He actually, when Featherweight Champ was able to successfully win the Welter Title, and then go down to win the Lightweight Title.

          But he stayed at lightweight for most of his career even when fighting welterweights, although towards the end, his weight did increase a bit.

          I'd be delighted if Manny could emulate Henry Armstrong, but .........ARMSTRONG could do it..............and Manny Pacquiao is NO Henry Armstrong. Not yet anyway.

          So what exactly is your point of view?.... That you are againts this fight because you are already certain of the result and that this writer is only promoting this fight because he disagrees with your certainty?

          Comment


          • #15
            Pac's good enough that I don't like thinkin he has no chance in this, but I don't see how the hell he can beat a guy that much bigger.

            Comment


            • #16
              Chin

              That was a nice read. However, I feel the article brushed past a critical point. If DLH manages to catch him, can Pac-man's chin take the left hook of a man naturally three or four divisions bigger? Sod taking the fight to bigger men, it's all about the chin here. In the higher weight divisions, there isn't going to be that big a gulp in the chins (generally speaking, there are exceptions) as the boxers are all big men and so usually can take a bigger punch - it's not quite as troublesome stepping up in weight class when you're big to begin with. But Pac-man is not a big man to begin with. And DLH's no little guy. Still, interesting article though.
              Last edited by ListenUpWell; 08-31-2008, 09:55 AM. Reason: spelling mistake

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              • #17
                good to know im not the only one that picked up on some of those ridiculous fight analogies.

                there's a big difference between what Sugar Ray did vs Maxim, or Henry Armstrong did in his career

                sure they along with Pacquiao went up in weight. but Ray and Armstrong went after the best, for titles and legacy.

                Manny's going after the most popular/well known in the world for a pay day.

                sure 2 weight classes is a big jump, but Oscar's 36 and out of prime, those have to be considered when you compare it to what Robinson did vs a Lightweight Champ and what Armstrong did during his own weight jumps

                Comment


                • #18
                  Originally posted by mangler View Post
                  Pac's good enough that I don't like thinkin he has no chance in this, but I don't see how the hell he can beat a guy that much bigger.
                  Hey Mangler: Maybe bigger won't be better this time. Just a thought.

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Lady Fan View Post
                    Hey Mangler: Maybe bigger won't be better this time. Just a thought.
                    Only a female can let us know how that is

                    lol

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Lady Fan View Post
                      Hey Mangler: Maybe bigger won't be better this time. Just a thought.
                      Wanna bet lady fan, I got 1k on DLH...

                      Comment

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