Roy Jones Jr: "Calzaghe Fight, Two Titles on November 8"

[Silencers]

Well, the fighting at two weight division thing just to get more belts out of the other guy, is a gimmick and could be done in many fights. So I'm dead against that not only in terms of defending one boxer being taken advantage of risk wise, but also protecting the sport and it's even now, less than desirable reputation as a well sanctioned sport.

As for just fighting at SMW, well that's obviously less bad and is upto Joe. But it's not what they've agreed. They're both at LHW, fought there last, and were going to fight at LHW. Both would struggle to make SMW, and Roy's being greedy, he's the underdog and should be pleased at the opportunity to be able to win the Ring LHW belt and beat the p4p #2 guy. He has to not only add to that by saying how about SMW where's there's more belts, but the cheek to try and get both at the same time. Sorry, it just makes me credit Roy as a boxer much less I'm afraid. As I said, a gimmick and manipulation of the boxing weight divisions and rules.

Of course it's a gimmick and it will make a lot of people interested because it's a shot at history and as I said earlier, if Calzaghe wants to make more money, he'll do this but as you said, it comes with an element of risk and it is a manipulation of the weight classes but from a financial standpoint it make sense IMO.

HBO are doing a 24/7 on this fight which would hype it up even more, add this gimmick into it would make Calzaghe quite a lot more money I think.

[Silencers]

but how important is stamina for a fighter? you could be driving a ferrari, no gas in the tank, your not going anywhere...

maybe you couldnt say roy is better than bernard based on opposition, but i dont think you could say bernard is better than roy either...

Stamina is important but we haven't really seen Jones pushed for 12 hard rounds since his comeback either so it's not easy to gauge how good his stamina is.

I think you can say Hopkins is better right now than Jones based on level of opposition.

[THE REED]

Stamina is important but we haven't really seen Jones pushed for 12 hard rounds since his comeback either so it's not easy to gauge how good his stamina is.

Based on opposition, yes I can.

How?

Bernard faced better opposition, his stamina was bad

roy faced lesser opposition, his stamina was good

how can we come to a conclusion on whose got more left ?


and call me nutso... but hanshaw made roy work a lot harder than winky made hopkins...

[moofo]

The last guy who moved up and won the HW championship title actually BEAT THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP.
Roy just beat a HW.
A nice achievement , but a gimmick and pretty worthless when Lennox Lewis was the true champ.
**** like that is what makes serious minded people detract from the sport.
Great for kids who like WWE/F though.

[Silencers]

How?

Bernard faced better opposition, his stamina was bad

roy faced lesser opposition, his stamina was good

how can we come to a conclusion on whose got more left ?


and call me nutso... but hanshaw made roy work a lot harder than winky made hopkins...

By looking at how they have fared against recent opposition.

Hopkins has beaten the better opposition in the last couple of years, there's no denying that and is currently ranked in the pound for pound top 10 by the Ring magazine.

I'm sorry but Jones beating Trinidad, Hanshaw and Ajamu doesn't tell me he's better than Hopkins or even on even terms.

Hanshaw did give him trouble but didn't push him hard, and Hanshaw giving Jones trouble is not a good sign for him.

[Kris Silver]

So what would you say if this was the other way around?

I bet it would go something like:

Joe is so smart for doing it, he deserves all the belts if he wins. I would respect him even more if he pulled that off. Joe is the best!!!

That's right because all Calzaghe fans are totally biased and un balanced right? Your such a predictable cynic it's unreal. I'd say exactly the same thing, hence writing on about it being a gimmick and undermining the boxing weight divisions more than anything.

Of course it's a gimmick and it will make a lot of people interested because it's a shot at history and as I said earlier, if Calzaghe wants to make more money, he'll do this but as you said, it comes with an element of risk and it is a manipulation of the weight classes but from a financial standpoint it make sense IMO.

HBO are doing a 24/7 on this fight which would hype it up even more, add this gimmick into it would make Calzaghe quite a lot more money I think.

Dude I already responded to that. I think it's a gimmick to the point the benefits could well out weigh any predicted pro's. When you tweak and manipulate something to try and get more gain, often it winds up breaking.

A sizeable amount would respect the fight and result less if someone took home several belts from different weight divisions on the same night. It goes against what luckily still some boxing fans, know and respect about the sport. The fact it at least tries to be fair. Rules aren't there to be broken contrary to what many would like. Manipulating the rules in sport often has it's own consequences.

There'd be ppl respecting the fighters, the result, the weight classes and sport less. That's way more damaging then just a few more bucks, and is ultimately just greed at the expense of the sport. Plus I don't think the financial benefits would be too good due to less ppl respecting the fight, fighters, outcome and sport, plus the confusion of it would put many off the fight and sport as a whole. Way more potential for negative impacts than positive.

[THE REED]

By looking at how they have fared against recent opposition.

Hopkins has beaten the better opposition in the last couple of years, there's no denying that and is currently ranked in the pound for pound top 10 by the Ring magazine.

I'm sorry but Jones beating Trinidad, Hanshaw and Ajamu doesn't tell me he's better than Hopkins or even on even terms.

And exactly, it's Hanshaw that made him work hard, Hanshaw while being a solid pro isn't very good.

As ive read your responses in other threads, Roy completely controlled the Hanshaw fight.

My point was that, Hanshaw pressed forward and still made Roy work, more than Winky did... Im using that as a base for stamina.


Im not arguing, whose fought better opposition, just who has the better stamina...Bernard fighting winky and Joe doesnt necessarily mean he has the better stamina, even though I understand your point of view that fighting better competition hinders your stamina...

i come back to my point before...

bernard faced better opposition, and his stamina was poor
roy faced lesser opposition, his stamina was good...

i dont see a logical conclusion on whose got more in the tank based off this.

not to mention bernard is 43... not that roy is a little kid anymore either

[Zarco]

and roy wont struggle? 2 months shy of 40? hasnt made 168 in 10 years when Joe just made it, what 7-8 months ago?

He weighed in at 169 for the trinidad fight

[THE REED]

He weighed in at 169 for the trinidad fight

and that means he did or didnt struggle? being that was my point.. im well aware of what he weighed for the trinidad fight... and it was 169 1/2 to be exact.

[Silencers]

As ive read your responses in other threads, Roy completely controlled the Hanshaw fight.

My point was that, Hanshaw pressed forward and still made Roy work, more than Winky did... Im using that as a base for stamina.


Im not arguing, whose fought better opposition, just who has the better stamina...Bernard fighting winky and Joe doesnt necessarily mean he has the better stamina, even though I understand your point of view that fighting better competition hinders your stamina...

i come back to my point before...

bernard faced better opposition, and his stamina was poor
roy faced lesser opposition, his stamina was good...

i dont see a logical conclusion on whose got more in the tank based off this.

not to mention bernard is 43... not that roy is a little kid anymore either

There were as in all fights, positives and negatives from the Hanshaw fight, Jones did a good job of countering off the ropes and seemed to have improved defense, but the negatives were that Hanshaw was still able to land some solid shots on Jones and I don't really remember Jones throwing too many 5 or 6 punch combinations in the fight, he did a couple of times but not many.

Jones does probably have the better stamina but stamina is not the only thing that makes a fighter better, Jones has looked better recently but it has been against lesser opposition.

So I think as an all around fighter at this point, the edge goes to Hopkins.

Dude I already responded to that. I think it's a gimmick to the point the benefits could well out weigh any predicted pro's. When you tweak and manipulate something to try and get more gain, often it winds up breaking.

A sizeable amount would respect the fight and result less if someone took home several belts from different weight divisions on the same night. It goes against what luckily still some boxing fans, know and respect about the sport. The fact it at least tries to be fair. Rules aren't there to be broken contrary to what many would like. Manipulating the rules in sport often has it's own consequences.

There'd be ppl respecting the fighters, the result, the weight classes and sport less. That's way more damaging then just a few more bucks, and is ultimately just greed at the expense of the sport. Plus I don't think the financial benefits would be too good due to less ppl respecting the fight, fighters, outcome and sport, plus the confusion of it would put many off the fight and sport as a whole. Way more potential for negative impacts than positive.

Leonard vs Lalonde didn't damage the sport, I don't think Calzaghe vs Jones would.


I'll reply to you both in a few hours, I gotta get some sleep.