Better Legacy Hopkins or Calzaghe lets settle it for good

[C.Y.]

Kessler and Hopkins.

kessler is a good fighter but he isnt an elite fighter..
and calzaghe sure as hell didnt dominate hopkins.. it was a split gift decision.. i thought calzaghe lost the fight to be honest.. he had a highwork rate and was forcing the fight but he didnt land to many clean shots.. bernard landed more clean shots and knocked the guy on his butt.. but i guess even with cal's win over a 43 year old hopkins that wasnt a dominate win

[IMDAZED]

Okay let's look at it in the real world then. Kessler has had one big fight, Pavlik two against the same opponent.

Pavlik won the first in a fight which could have been stopped when he went down in the second and he was losing on the cards when he came roaring back with a spectacular knockout. The rematch went the distance and was closely contested with Pavlik emerging the deserved victor.

Kessler's big fight came against Joe Calzaghe, a better fighter than Taylor, in Wales and the Dane suffered a unanimous points defeat in a highly competitive match and one which was arguably Joe's best performance.

Outside of the aforementioned fights both men have fought a mixed bag of opponents, Miranda is the best of the rest on Pavlik's while Mundine takes that crown on Kessler's The point is that neither have glittering resumes, mainly due to their age, but that does not detract from their skills or abilities.

So in other words, they've each had one big fight. One lost, the other didn't.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. We're back to square one, where you can try and tout the wins over Mundine and Beyer. Not quite Jermain Taylor, eh?

[Mozza]

kessler is a good fighter but he isnt an elite fighter..
and calzaghe sure as hell didnt dominate hopkins.. it was a split gift decision.. i thought calzaghe lost the fight to be honest.. he had a highwork rate and was forcing the fight but he didnt land to many clean shots.. bernard landed more clean shots and knocked the guy on his butt.. but i guess even with cal's win over a 43 year old hopkins that wasnt a dominate win

Out of curiosity, how many rounds did you give Hopkins?

[Mozza]

So in other words, they've each had one big fight. One lost, the other didn't.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. We're back to square one, where you can try and tout the wins over Mundine and Beyer. Not quite Jermain Taylor, eh?

I made the point very explicitly, the point is that one win does not make a fighter, likewise one defeat. It is obvious to me but you can't seem to grasp it.

[IMDAZED]

I made the point very explicitly, the point is that one win does not make a fighter, likewise one defeat. It is obvious to me but you can't seem to grasp it.

The only thing obvious here is your lame ass attempt to make Kessler into a a pound for pounder. So what do you do? Try and discount someone else's resume. Don't try to change the subject because you couldn't back up your points. Wasn't the original point of our debate about Kessler being a pound for pounder? Or on the verge (whatever the **** that means)?

Kelly Pavlik is up there because he stopped the undisputed middleweight champ - after beating the division's perceived #1 contender.

Mikkel Kessler is NOT because he hasn't beaten any fighter considered elite, or even close to it.

And that's that.

[Mozza]

The only thing obvious here is your lame ass attempt to make Kessler into a a pound for pounder. So what do you do? Try and discount someone else's resume. Don't try to change the subject because you couldn't back up your points. Wasn't the original point of our debate about Kessler being a pound for pounder? Or on the verge (whatever the **** that means)?

Kelly Pavlik is up there because he stopped the undisputed middleweight champ - after beating the division's perceived #1 contender.

Mikkel Kessler is NOT because he hasn't beaten any fighter considered elite, or even close to it.

And that's that.

On the verge of means nearly.

Pavlik is there because he beat Taylor. Kessler has the skills and ability to be there but is not there because he does not hold that name win. I made that point a number of posts ago but you obviously didn't take it in. I never said Kessler is a P4P figher, I said he was on the boundaries of such status before the Calzaghe fight and will, in all likelihood, end up there when he gets that big name victory. The manner of Kessler's performances and victories leading up to the fight with Joe Calzaghe and indeed the closeness of that fight leads me to the opinion that he is an elite fighter.

This is going round in circles now and I'm getting sick of repeating myself. If you haven't understood what is a very simple point by now then you're never going to and I'm not wasting any more time trying to explain it to you so on that bombshell it's adiós amigo!

[Kris Silver]

Hopkins but it's close.

I'm increasingly struggling to take polls seriously when geographics play such an overwhemling role. But hey. Poss even if Calz beats Hops maybe just ahead. Def if Calz beats Pavlik. As for Nard, as we know, he'll make Pavlik look worse, as expected though.

[IMDAZED]

On the verge of means nearly.

Pavlik is there because he beat Taylor. Kessler has the skills and ability to be there but is not there because he does not hold that name win. I made that point a number of posts ago but you obviously didn't take it in. I never said Kessler is a P4P figher, I said he was on the boundaries of such status before the Calzaghe fight and will, in all likelihood, end up there when he gets that big name victory. The manner of Kessler's performances and victories leading up to the fight with Joe Calzaghe and indeed the closeness of that fight leads me to the opinion that he is an elite fighter.

This is going round in circles now and I'm getting sick of repeating myself. If you haven't understood what is a very simple point by now then you're never going to and I'm not wasting any more time trying to explain it to you so on that bombshell it's adiós amigo!

This is boxing. And boxers are measured by who they beat. Keep fighting chumps and you'll look like God. So why am I not surprised you thought Kessler was so great when they're putting him in against Librado Andrade. PLEASE.

You don't have to explain anything. Just keep telling yourself "Beyer, Mundine" over and over and if you say it enough times, maybe they become ELITE!

PEACE

[IMDAZED]

Hopkins but it's close.

I'm increasingly struggling to take polls seriously when geographics play such an overwhemling role. But hey. Poss even if Calz beats Hops maybe just ahead. Def if Calz beats Pavlik. As for Nard, as we know, he'll make Pavlik look worse, as expected though.

Hops may get stopped. He's gonna make Pavlik miss a lot but unless he can put him away, he's gonna gas quick because Pavlik won't stop coming.

I commend you for the Hops pick. I was actually a Calzaghe fan until I started posting on these boards. I don't believe everyone I'm a fan of is the biggest thing since sliced bread. I was appalled at how he was rated here and how people vehemently defended their nonsense. Ah well. I rather enjoy the debates with the better posters.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Hopkins clearly. Beat the better line of fighters, better pound for pound quality fighters and was ranked higher on the pound for pound at number 1 at one time. He also set the record for middleweight title defenses and unified middleweight while Calzaghe didn't unify until last year. A prime Bernard Hopkins was also the better fighter, just my opinion.