Should Southpaws Be Rated Lower Then Orthodox?

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  • DLT
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    #1

    Should Southpaws Be Rated Lower Then Orthodox?

    This is long but I think a must read. Atleast just skim through it or read a little.

    I talk about this all the time on here. I just think that its much easier for a Southpaw to have success in boxing. You either cant see there punches coming or you can see them, play your D perfect like you do against righties and you still get hit clean. The punch hurts way more that way also and most of the time you get hit square in the nose. I also think it makes you much harder to hit. Ive even heard Calzaghe say that being a Southpaw gives guys hell.

    Sweet Pea is one of my favorite boxers ever and would be great either way but I dont think he wins all those tought bouts or atleast not as easy if he wasnt a Southpaw. It made him 10x harder to hit and chase down. Guys fight totally different against Southpaws. Most of the time they are so scared and show them so much respect because its like your staring dead at there left hand and if you make any mistake then your finished. Thats why Floyd never overcommited against Zab. Thats why Chop is the only guy to really rock Floyd. Pac Man is a very good fighter and a monsted but dont tell me that he would still be that dominant if he was an orthodox fighter. He's much too raw to dominate guys like that. No way he probably even beats JMM if he's a righty.

    Look at Tarver-RJ and the KO. Tarver swung and RJ does what he's done in every fight in his career. Dont give me that garbage about reflexes. RJ knew Tarver was swinging, he stepped back and put his right hand on the side of his jaw just like he does in every fight and just like your supposed to. He wouldve never got hit if that was a righty but not only does Tarver land but he lands flush on RJ's nose. Those are the shots that kill you and only a lefty can do that. The 1st Pac-MAB fight was the exact same way. MAB was kind of like Hopkins. He's one of the few guys who have always done well against Southpaws. Right before his KD Pac threw the same straight left and MAB stepped to the side and put his hand up. A few seconds later the exact same thing happends but Pac catches him square in the nose and you could tell he was really hurt. It hurts you bad. Any other time if MAB had stepped to the side then he's out of range but youre basically never out of range against a Southpaw. Foreman use to say it all the time.

    Its also no coincedence when a Southpaw shocks another Southpaw. Spinks was killing cats but I told everyone that Zab would give him trouble because Spinks normal moves wont work against Zab because he too is a slick Southpaw with speed. You could see it in both fights. That **** Spinks kills cats with never really worked against Zab and Zab was the 1st guy to ever hit Spinks clean and Knocked him out. Thats why I told people that Zab could give Williams hell. I actually believe that Williams may be able to beat a guy like Margarito & Cotto nearly every time but would have hell against Zab & Quintana because there southpaw style will throw him off just like his **** throws everyone else off and thats why Quintana owned him in that 1st fight. I think Williams would be pretty average if he was a righty. No way he would give Margarito any problems then. Then on the same night a couple weeks ago there were 2 huge fights. Lefty against Lefty. Both end in shocking 1st round KO's. Why? Because of blind punches again. Quintana walks straight into a left hand square in his nose and Ponce walks straight into a blind right that he never saw coming.

    On the Iron Ring finale a lefty was fighting a cat that you could tell was way better then him and the other cat still won but it was much harder then it shouldve been only because this guy was a lefty which made the other guy so nervous about rushing in. Look at Wlad vs Sanders. Would anyone be shocked to see Wlad kill every HW and still get KO again by a old Sanders. Wlad was so shook in that fight he didnt know what to do. He knew Sanders was throwing the left and just couldnt see it or he could see it clearly and still couldnt stop it. It was sad. It got so bad that at the end, Wlad was pushing both hands out like a girl to try to block Sanders punch when he was ****ing his hand back. Thats why I say that if 2 guys are even then the righty should be ranked higher because it is just much easier for a lefty in this sport. Guys like Floyd, RJ, Hopkins, and so on wouldve been unbeatable if they were Southpaws while some of these other guys like Pac, Calzaghe, and Sweet Pea still wouldve been good but not as great if they were an orthoxdox fighter. Floyd wouldve been so deadly with his accurate punchers as a lefty. Imagine Sugar Shane as a Southpaw in his prime? Deadly. Kosta Tsyzu? It wouldve been murder every fight.
  • miron_lang
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    #2
    Good observations + Karma

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    • shadeyfizzle
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      #3
      This is ****ing ******. Are you not aware that Delahoya is a southpaw turned righty??

      And it doesnt matter if they're southpaw or not, boxing is about adaptability. Check out Cotto destroying Quintana who is a natural lefty from an adapted southpaw stance

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      • DLT
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        #4
        Originally posted by shadeyfizzle
        This is ****ing ******. Are you not aware that Delahoya is a southpaw turned righty??

        And it doesnt matter if they're southpaw or not, boxing is about adaptability. Check out Cotto destroying Quintana who is a natural lefty from an adapted southpaw stance
        STFU clown, you think I dont know what Cotto & Oscar are? WTF does that have to do with anything. Its about the stance and where the shots are coming from. Cotto & Oscar are orthodox fighters plain & simple. Then you talk about Cotto destroying Quintana? So what, you act like Im saying that a righty will never beat a Southpaw. All Im saying that if 2 guys are rated closely then the orhtodox guy should always be rated higher because its harder for him.

        Put it this way. I think if you have the exact same person but one guy is a Southpaw and the other is a righty then the Southpaw will always be better and if you dont believe that then your a fool. Thats what makes Ali so great. He boxed so light on his fight as an orthodox figher. A guy like Spinks is a good boxer but he would have hell if he was orthodox. He does not have the overall elite skill set or power to dominate as a orhtodox fighter. Paulie Malignaggi would be giving cats mad hell if he was a Southpaw with his style of fighting but because he is a righty it doesnt have the same effect. He's still a good fighter but just not as great as he could be if he was a southpaw.

        Dont get what Im saying twisted. This doesnt mean that all southpaws are great just because they are a southpaw or that all righty's would be good if they are southpaw. It just means that if everything is equal then the southpaw will be better plain & simple. Why do you think that no one wants to fight them? Its a huge advantage

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        • marzblkman
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          #5
          I respect the length of your thoughts but this has got to be one of the most ignorant premises I've ever heard of.

          Why stop with boxing, lets apply the logic to baseball and rank left hitters and pitchers lower and Steve Young in football. Get rid of your hall of fame bust.

          Your comments regarding floyd committing against Zab are insane. Floyd beat Zab by setting a trap and he clearly stepped toe to toe with Zab after round five. There was hardly any sticking and moving and it was Zab who was often in retreat mode.

          As a boxer, it's YOUR CHALLENGE to learn to adapt as previously stated. Shadeyfizzle makes excellent point about this and I'll add to it. I notice your argument is totally void of past lefties which tells me you're not that familiar with the sport. You mentioned Whitaker losing to guys if he were a righty. Like who??

          Who would Marvin Hagler have lost to since he was a lefty? Keep in mind Hagler fought a war with Tommy Hearns and Tommy's best punch was his right hand, a punch that a left hander is most susceptible to.

          But I'll end with a question using one of YOUR examples. Explain to me why int he first fight that Spinks CLEARLY won the first 8 rounds against Zab only for Zab to land clear shots later??

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          • shadeyfizzle
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            #6
            There is absolutely no advantage in being a southpaw fighting a righty or disadvantage vice-versa. Its all mental. The fact that its so rare to see southpaws let alone really good ones are what give the illusion that they have an advantage. The fact that a orthodox fighter has to take all his habits and make it work just as instinctively in reverse. Take any fighter and make him spar with nothing but southpaws and sign him to fight 5 southpaws in a row and if he can make it past the 1st 2 he'll embarass the last 3. But then he'll look ****ty against an orthodox fighter the same way the average orthodox fighter does against a southpaw

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            • DLT
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              #7
              Originally posted by marzblkman
              I respect the length of your thoughts but this has got to be one of the most ignorant premises I've ever heard of.

              Why stop with boxing, lets apply the logic to baseball and rank left hitters and pitchers lower and Steve Young in football. Get rid of your hall of fame bust.

              Your comments regarding floyd committing against Zab are insane. Floyd beat Zab by setting a trap and he clearly stepped toe to toe with Zab after round five. There was hardly any sticking and moving and it was Zab who was often in retreat mode.

              As a boxer, it's YOUR CHALLENGE to learn to adapt as previously stated. Shadeyfizzle makes excellent point about this and I'll add to it. I notice your argument is totally void of past lefties which tells me you're not that familiar with the sport. You mentioned Whitaker losing to guys if he were a righty. Like who??

              Who would Marvin Hagler have lost to since he was a lefty? Keep in mind Hagler fought a war with Tommy Hearns and Tommy's best punch was his right hand, a punch that a left hander is most susceptible to.

              But I'll end with a question using one of YOUR examples. Explain to me why int he first fight that Spinks CLEARLY won the first 8 rounds against Zab only for Zab to land clear shots later??
              1st of all boxing is my favorite sport and Ive been watching it since I was a kid so Im definatly not new to this like you think. I dont understand your very last question but I personaly did not have Spinks winning the 1st 8 rounds at all. I think Zab won the fight. Even Lederman had Zab like tied up before that late round when Zab turned his back. I think thats where the fight changed because its like people automatically gave that round to Spinks because Zab did that but I still thought he won that round and Spinks didnt even land a punch when he did that while Zab caught him with some very good shots at the end.

              I know how Floyd fought Zab. He walked him down the whole fight. My point is that alot of people still thought that Floyd never went full out in attack mode and put alot of puches together. Its like he walked him down but he did it with respect. He was always cautious for the Zab counter and it payed off for him at the bell in like the 8th round. Floyd was coming in and Zab threw a dead eye counter that that Floyd ducked and Merchant immieadtly said thats why Floyd has stayed someone cautious even though he is the one making the fight.

              How does what I say apply to other things? Its apples & oragnes. You cant compare sports which are totally different. Steve Young being a lefty means nothing except for the ball spining. The fact is that in other sports you see alot more southpaws but in boxing a guy might fight only like 2 southpaws his whole career. I do think you can adept it to a sport like basketball where a guy is much harder to guard because he is left handed like I think Ginobli and others are. His moves arent that special but since he's doing it the opposite way, guys have hell guarding him.

              I actually had Hagler in my mind when I made this thread but I didnt want to add every guy in history. Obviously Hagler was a class champion who was very skilled and had power. The problem with him is that most guys on his resume arent good enough to beat him anyway except for the guys who were good enough but moving up in wieght so they were too small. Hearns was a tall guy but there was no way in hell that he was going to beat a MW Hagler. Its just like Hopkins vs Tito. He was too big and Hearns didnt have the greatest chin anyway. Tito had mad power too but couldnt hurt Hopkins either. Im the biggest sweet pea fan there is and while I might not guarantee a loss, there is no way he is skunking some of those big time guys like he did if he were a righty.

              I cant believe you guys think that there is no advantage at all. There's a reason why Floyd's dad ordered the managers to never put Floyd in the ring with a Southpaw ever again. Fighters talk about it all the time how they hate to fight southpaws or how they had to be more cautious. You see alot more crazy wins in southpaw fights. Its coming from the opposite way. You think your out of range but your not. There's alot more blind punches. There's others that you can see, you put your normal perfect D up, and still get hit flush. It happeneds alot. You always hear guys talking about how long it took them to figure out the southpaw style or how the southpaw style is giving him trouble

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              • DLT
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                #8
                Originally posted by shadeyfizzle
                There is absolutely no advantage in being a southpaw fighting a righty or disadvantage vice-versa. Its all mental. The fact that its so rare to see southpaws let alone really good ones are what give the illusion that they have an advantage. The fact that a orthodox fighter has to take all his habits and make it work just as instinctively in reverse. Take any fighter and make him spar with nothing but southpaws and sign him to fight 5 southpaws in a row and if he can make it past the 1st 2 he'll embarass the last 3. But then he'll look ****ty against an orthodox fighter the same way the average orthodox fighter does against a southpaw
                Well what difference does it make what the reason is. The point is that its a fact and now it sounds like your agreeing with me. I know most of it has to do with guys not seeing a southpaw much but its reality. Your not going to spar with nothing but southpaws because you never fight them so it is a huge advantage. Thats my point. If a guy has 20 fights, there are a ton of cases where all if not 19 of them are against righty's. Now here comes an elite southpaw in your next fight and he makes you look flat out ******. You dont think its an advantage. I agree with your reason but its still what it is so it doesnt matter. No one fights 5 southpaws in a row or spars with nothing but southpaws but in most every case you spar with almost all righties and can fight 20 righties in a row. Thats why the Southpaw has an advantage when you do meet and thats why a Southpaw looks shook alot of times when they meet another southpaw because there also not use to them

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                • shadeyfizzle
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                  #9
                  Once again I will state that its all a mental illusion because there are no advantages. An elite southpaw becoming elite has nothing to do with his opponents being unprepared. Its because they are elite athletes. All the adjustments an orthodox fighter has to make when dealing with an elite southpaw are offset by the fact that southpaw fighters have to make all these same adjustments at the beginning of their careers. How much hell or punishment do you think southpaws endure to have to learn everything about boxing in reverse?? Not to mention how much hell it is for an orthodox trainer to train southpaws

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                  • DLT
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by shadeyfizzle
                    Once again I will state that its all a mental illusion because there are no advantages. An elite southpaw becoming elite has nothing to do with his opponents being unprepared. Its because they are elite athletes. All the adjustments an orthodox fighter has to make when dealing with an elite southpaw are offset by the fact that southpaw fighters have to make all these same adjustments at the beginning of their careers. How much hell or punishment do you think southpaws endure to have to learn everything about boxing in reverse?? Not to mention how much hell it is for an orthodox trainer to train southpaws
                    How are they taking a beating when there fighting righties when there little and righties are also fighting righties? Even as a kid its still the same. They still fight mostly all righties while a rightie hardly ever see's a southpaw. It would be a much shorter time for them to adjust. Also, the Southpaw basically just stays the same while there opponent is always adjusting. A Southpaw is fighting a righty everyday since when they were a kid but there opponent is fighting a righty 6 days a week, then have to fight a lefty on the 7th day, then go back to 6 straight days of fighting a righty. Thats why the Southpaw has a huge advantage. Thats also why righties dont fight alot of southpaws because there trainers think that not only are they at a disadvantage against the southpaw but everytime they fight one it makes them have to readjust again when they fight a righty and they dont want to confuse a young fighter. Its like telling a d-lineman in football to just learn 1 position instead of trying to play every position on the line because chances are that your not going to be elite at any of the positions if you keep switching. Thats why trainers keep there fighters against righties most of the time. You say that its learning in reverse but it really isnt. Its reverse for the righty because there always fighting righties but its not really reverse for the lefty because they are always fighting righties also so they dont have to switch back and forths from style to style. Get it?
                    Last edited by DLT; 06-18-2008, 01:37 AM.

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