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The only fight he didn't have was with RJJ but other than that he beat everyone! Cal vs rjj, who wins? i don't know!Comment
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Glen Johnson really comes to mind. Antwon Echols too since he beat Brewer before Calzaghe did.
Oh and Sven Ottke even if he's trash. Overall thouh Calzaghe has a good resume without those 3.Comment
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Eric Lucas, Sven Ottke, Glen Johnson, Roy Jones Jr., Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Darius Michaelziwowski(or whatever, haha), Thomas Adamek, Reggie Jonson, and Chad Dawson are a few that Calzaghe could have fought to make his record better.
Is Calzaghe required to fight these guys? Of course not, most of them were above his weight class. but the thing is, if a fighter wants to be remembered as an all time great, he has to go after those big fights and move up.
some people may scoff at the names on that list, but give me a break. every one of them would be at the very least top 10 for Calzaghe's best wins. Wins over those guys would do nothing but help Calzaghe's record, theres no doubt about that.
and some guys think its 'absurd' for some people to require Calzaghe to fight at Cruiserweight/heavyweight to be rated as an ATG. Well why not? It HAS been done before, and by people who also won titles at 160lbs! You guys have to remember that when youre talking about 'All Time Greats', that means every boxer in history. Nobody said it was easy to be an ATG.Comment
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OK,
So far we have Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Bernard Hopkins, Antwon Echols, and RJJ sorry if I missed any. I agree that these names would look good on Joe's resume, but really, does he need these names to help us assess him, and were these fights even possible? I'm going to look at the most credible of the fights, Glen Johnson in this, post and maybe the others later.
Glen Johnson
This would have been an interesting fight, because Glen would have been a good test for Joe, but this is really an opinion that we have formed with hindsight. Between 1997 and 2000, Glens SMW years when he was in the mix with Joe, he was a losing fighter, with 6 losses out of 11 SMW fights including a 2000 loss to Omar Sheika, a man usually derided as one of Joe's tomato cans. The guys who he did beat were not particularly impressive. Yes people say he was robbed a few times, but those Ls were still there, and nothing he did at SMW suggests he would have beaten Calzaghe or that there was any pressing reason to have the fight.
Later, between 2003 and 2005 when Johnson got his most impressive wins at LHW, I agree the case for a Calzaghe fight became stronger, as at this time Joe was fighting the likes of Mitchell, Salem, Veit and Ashira and unquestionably Johnson would have been a better opponent. The problem is that it has only become clear to us after 2005 that this was so, at which time Joe had begun the path that would take him to the top, with fights against Lacy and Kessler. Johnson would have been a good name to fight at that point, but better than Lacy and Kessler, I'm not sure. You could put him in ahead of Bika for sure, but this is a pretty narrow window of opportunity at the time that Joe was making his biggest fights. Factor in the fact that Johnson was a LHW and Joe had not moved up, and it is easy to see why these two never fought.
Leaving aside the logistics, you still have the question of what a fight with Johnson would have meant. In Joe's years at SMW when they were peers, it wouldn't have proved anything, for the reasons I've described. Glen would have been just another SMW name on Joe's list. Later, after Johnson had proved himself at LHW it would have meant more for sure, but I don't think we would have learned anything about Joe that his beatings of Lacy and Kessler didn't show us. A nice fight for sure, but it would never have told us anything we didn't already know.
NB: Yes I used boxrec to check the dates, but I do remember this stuff.
Opinions?Last edited by abadger; 05-24-2008, 01:57 PM.Comment
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I understand what you are saying, and I will try to look at the fighters you mention in detail later, but to briefly answer your post, I think your logic is a little faulty.
The question is not "how could Joe have had a few better names on his resume?", but "which fighters should Calzaghe have fought that would have proved he is a better fighter than he already has?", so its not enough just to say that fighter A is better than fighter B on Joe's resume, therefore he should have fought him. In boxing, not every single fight that could be made can be made, and it is often only with hindsight that we are able to make thses calls about fighter A and fighter B. It is unrealistic to subject Calzaghe, or any boxer for that matter, to a level of scrutiny that basically says he absolutely has to have fought every single boxer that now, looking back, we realise would have been a tougher opponent. If we did this, then no boxer's resume would ever be good enough.Comment
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Who you beat defines your career. Better wins=a better legacy.
If Calzaghe wanted to be known as one of the best fighters of all time, he would have moved up a weight class and challenged Roy Jones Jr. If he could have beat him, he would be known as one of the best fighters of all time. Happy?
Who should Calzaghe have beat to make him more respected in people's eyes? He should have beaten Eric Lucas, Sven Ottke, Glen Johnson, Roy Jones Jr., Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Darius Michaelziwowski(or whatever, haha), Thomas Adamek, Reggie Jonson, and/or Chad Dawson. That is the answer to your question. You cant fight everyone, but be honest with yourself...If Calzaghe would have beat any of the above, he would be more respected, wouldnt he?Comment
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Prime Roy Jones. Had he have beaten him(big if!) this thread wouldn't have existed.Comment
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