ODLH. All Time Great?

[Lazy Liberal]

You could also say that the Whitaker fight was disputable. The problem is that when he wins important fights, he doesn't know how to slam dunk to make a statement. He doesn't separate himself from his opponents often enough.

That is fair and valid but look at who he was fighting. The guys who he had close fights were guys who were either better than him or on his level. Fighting the guys he did once he went up to WW would give any fighter problems. Every single fighter he faced in the WW divison was ring ranked.

What is often forgotten or dismissed is that Oscar went up to WW with no tune up fight. In his 1st fight in WW he went after Sweet Pea, that was bold and deserves recognition.

[Ras44]

Ras, if DLH was "way past his prime" in the mayweather fight, then wasn't pernell "way past" and chavez, too?

And Oscar was bigger than those guys. In fact, Oscar has almost always had a size advantage in his fights. He is 0-2 at middleweight. No shame in that, because that is beyond where his body and skills can take him.

I can see that you rate Oscar highly, and I won't belittle your opinions. But you are not applying your criteria fairly.

Oscar is a guy with skills and an excellent chin. He will not be dominated in his losses. He is almost like a BETTER Glen Johnson in that respect.

If you forgive Oscar for being KO'd by Hopkins, then shouldn't you penalize him for not KO'ing the much smaller Mayweather? Or Pernell?

I recognized that Chávez was past his prime, and I had completely forgotten his fight against Whitaker. Like I said, I'll have to watch it again.

I agree with you that he had a size advantage in most of his fights. I wouldn't go as far as saying he should be penalized for not KOing either Pernell, who was a defensive wizard and a hell of a counterpuncher, or Mayweather, who is pretty good and fought an old DLH. I think he should have KOd Chávez, though, and should be "penalized" for that.

Honestly I don't put DLH very high as an ATG, but I do think he is an ATG.
Now if we talk about SUGAR RAY LEONARD, that's an elite ATG.

[Mr. Ryan]

That is fair and valid but look at who he was fighting. The guys who he had close fights were guys who were either better than him or on his level. Fighting the guys he did once he went up to WW would give any fighter problems. Every single fighter he faced in the WW divison was ring ranked.

What is often forgotten or dismissed is that Oscar went up to WW with no tune up fight. In his 1st fight in WW he went after Sweet Pea, that was bold and deserves recognition.

I agree. One thing that even the most ardent, ruthless de la Hoya hater cannot dispute is that he never ducked anyone. Steward said that outside of Wright and Forrest, he fought literally everyone he could have at 147.

[Lazy Liberal]

I recognized that Chávez was past his prime, and I had completely forgotten his fight against Whitaker. Like I said, I'll have to watch it again.

I agree with you that he had a size advantage in most of his fights. I wouldn't go as far as saying he should be penalized for not KOing either Pernell, who was a defensive wizard and a hell of a counterpuncher, or Mayweather, who is pretty good and fought an old DLH. I think he should have KOd Chávez, though, and should be "penalized" for that.

Honestly I don't put DLH very high as an ATG, but I do think he is an ATG.
Now if we talk about SUGAR RAY LEONARD, that's an elite ATG.

He didn't Ko Chavez, but he made him quit , which was even better.

No one Kayoed Sweet Pea....................

If Mayweather gets credit for beating OScar, then Oscar should get credit for his wins as well. Oscar was about the same age as chavez and Sweet P.

[Flab]

I recognized that Chávez was past his prime, and I had completely forgotten his fight against Whitaker. Like I said, I'll have to watch it again.

I agree with you that he had a size advantage in most of his fights. I wouldn't go as far as saying he should be penalized for not KOing either Pernell, who was a defensive wizard and a hell of a counterpuncher, or Mayweather, who is pretty good and fought an old DLH. I think he should have KOd Chávez, though, and should be "penalized" for that.

Honestly I don't put DLH very high as an ATG, but I do think he is an ATG.
Now if we talk about SUGAR RAY LEONARD, that's an elite ATG.

de la Hoya did KO Chavez... twice.

[Lazy Liberal]

I agree. One thing that even the most ardent, ruthless de la Hoya hater cannot dispute is that he never ducked anyone. Steward said that outside of Wright and Forrest, he fought literally everyone he could have at 147.

The Vernon Forrest issue is misleading. He didn't burst on the scene untill the Mosley fights, prior to that he won a vcant strap from Raul Frank and his other BIG win was against santiago Samaniego. These guys are not exactly the guys to make the case that Oscar ducked Forrest. After the Mayorga fiasco, he completely fell off.

[Ras44]

de la Hoya did KO Chavez... twice.

No, he didn't. Oscar TKO'ed Chávez twice, which is not the same.

[QUISQUEYA]

If Mayweather gets credit for beating OScar, then Oscar should get credit for his wins as well. Oscar was about the same age as chavez and Sweet P.

Not quite the same. Oscar had 2-3 inches and 15-20 pounds on Floyd.

[Flab]

No, he didn't. Oscar TKO'ed Chávez twice, which is not the same.

It technically is.

[Lazy Liberal]

Not quite the same. Oscar had 2-3 inches and 15-20 pounds on Floyd.

what does heighth have to do with anything, If that was the case, Chico corrales would be undefeated in his 130 and 135 stints.