Brian Vera Wrecks Andy Lee’s American Showcase

[BennyST]

What I'm finding more and more baffling is how anyone with one loss, whether it be a prospect or veteran pro, is being written off as suddenly ****. Now that Lee has lost suddenly he is no good and was completely hyped up too much. He may very well have been hyped up too much but that doesn't mean he is done. Not even close. It depends on if he can get back up and learn from it, go back to the drawing board, fix up what this fight told him and be even better.

Undefeated records get way too much credit these days. If a fighter is undefeated it mostly means that he has not fought the best fights out there. In most cases that is. Certain fighters do deserve their 30-0 record but most don't and it doesn't mean a lot. I personally think it is better for a fighter to have fought the top guys and lost than to have fought beatable top contenders but kept their 0.

These upsets should be good for the fighters. The only problem is that when they lose often the sad fans go with their 0. They have to follow someone that is undefeated. All the big upsets this year shouldn't mean too much and in no way should it mean that they don't deserve to still be rated at the top. Williams, Lee, Katsidis etc are all still great fighters and hopefully will come back better than ever! I just hope that their fans will go with them instead of disappearing with their 0.

[The Monk]

I have been away for the week without access to boxing results, so when I returned home and checked boxrec I was extremely shocked to see that Andy lost. I have to be honest, I thought he would break Vera down eventually stopping him. I have managed to watch the fight and thought for the early rounds this was the likely outcome still. But then we saw Andy getting very tired and getting tagged far too much, although I had him a clear leader at the time of the stoppage.

My thoughts on the stoppage are that it was a poor call by the ref. Lee was throwing enough shots for the ref to let the fight continue. He was also landing some punches which still Vera felt the full force of. I'm not sure if Andy would have survived the round, but he should have been given the chance to try.

For where Lee should go from this I see no reason why he can't come back from this loss. He needs to get back in the gym and put this loss well and trully behind him. He is still my favourite prospect and I will continue to support him. Although this loss is a massive blow Andy is still young and has the talent to rise the rankings once more. Other well known boxers have suffered losses early in their career and it has helped them become better boxers, I hope this is the case for Andy.

[KingTito]

i certainly wasn't expecting this

[St@rscreem]

Man, Manny sure knows how to get his fighters that 1st big KO loss, thanks no doubt to his "Go out there and whoop that ass" strategy that he seems to give to every single fighter he's ever had, regardless of whether or not they have Hearns' power.

lol, no disrespect, but how come he can never get someone to lose gracefully? I guess this is a step up, since usually you have to pick his guys up off the mat when it happens.

As a side note, I've been waiting a long time for a Contender Alumni to stop one of these "hot" prospects in their tracks, so props to Vera for being the one to pull it out.

[Chase8400]

It's actually a very big PLUS for me when YOU impugn my credibility. I wasn't even aware of you, so I hesitate to say ANYTHING about YOUR credibility. You're welcome to say anything you like about me. I know where it's coming from anyway. Perhaps, when you grow up, and learn something about boxing-better still- join a club and get into the ring yourself- THEN, perhaps, you'll MAKE sense, and be listened to, or GET sense and don't talk about what you don't understand.

As for the stoppage, (and I'm not talking to you at all, now) it was a GOOD stoppage, the ref was hesitating on the verge for several punches before he did. I was expecting ...NOW...after each punch, then...NOW ....again, but it took him that last dead-straight-on-the- kisser (added to the previous ones for him to dive in. Andy was running on fumes since that punch which buckled his legs. he could have been irrevocably injured. (that means "for life" in case you don't know). His return punch was purly reflexive and had nothing on it at all.

And, for your information, I've almost certainly forgotten more about boxing than you'll ever even be "exposed to", let alone learn. I merely mention it, since you feel qualified to criticize my expertise, so that you can feel superior to someone who actually DOES know boxing. You need encouragement anyway.

Maybe you're an expert pretending to be an ignoramus?? You're doing a good job of it.

It appears that you have went through great lengths to deter or somehow discredit my opinion or assesment of you comments. Hum......sounds like you value peoples comments on here more than you lead on. BTW, as far as credibility: I have no need to demonstrate my boxing knowledge to anyone on a website. I can simply go to the gym, do some sparring and work up a sweat or speak to people in person who box pro or amatuer. I could easily say i know more than you, however what would that do? And, who really cares? Not me, so unless you want to be "irrevocably injured", dont get in the ring yourself mr. unknown expert. Talk is cheap. And, I dont give a **** a55 about whether you were talking to me or not. When you post on here, expect to get critisized for an ignorant opinion. Besides, why post if you dont want anyone to talk to you and test your knowledge of the sweet science that you hold so greatly fervent. Back to the Lee fight. You state here that he was punching back by instinct? Is that not the same instinct that makes a fighter , a fighter? Or is it not? Maybe you like stoppages as early as possible to save fighters. But, like i said before. Where would those great battles in the ring be if the refs all acted like this. There would have been far less great trilogies for you and me to talk about on message boeards, etc. So take it for its worth, like my opinion or not. But my opinion is mine alone and it is that you have no business coming on here and saying things that take away from this great sport that i love. (opinions vary)

[Atreyu Khalil]

Is this the same Andy Lee that Manny Steward said could beat Pavlik?...lol

yea ok

[Ray Ray]

Andy Lee still would KO Pavlik in 1 round

[rj_ct]

i thought the ref could have stopped it a number of times during the 7th. lee was getting hit with too many unanswered punches. unfortunately he chose to stop it as lee threw a lazy counter (there was nothing behind this punch, and it was more out of instinct/muscle memory than it was a counter).

so, not a bad stoppage, just bad timing. vera was clearly hurting lee. you could see it in his legs and the way his head was snapping back with every punch.

i like refs who let em fight. but from a referee's standpoint, 1 punch too many can be the difference between life and death for the fighter. both guys live to fight another fight.

[edgarg]

It appears that you have went through great lengths to deter or somehow discredit my opinion or assesment of you comments. Hum......sounds like you value peoples comments on here more than you lead on. BTW, as far as credibility: I have no need to demonstrate my boxing knowledge to anyone on a website. I can simply go to the gym, do some sparring and work up a sweat or speak to people in person who box pro or amatuer. I could easily say i know more than you, however what would that do? And, who really cares? Not me, so unless you want to be "irrevocably injured", dont get in the ring yourself mr. unknown expert. Talk is cheap. And, I dont give a **** a55 about whether you were talking to me or not. When you post on here, expect to get critisized for an ignorant opinion. Besides, why post if you dont want anyone to talk to you and test your knowledge of the sweet science that you hold so greatly fervent. Back to the Lee fight. You state here that he was punching back by instinct? Is that not the same instinct that makes a fighter , a fighter? Or is it not? Maybe you like stoppages as early as possible to save fighters. But, like i said before. Where would those great battles in the ring be if the refs all acted like this. There would have been far less great trilogies for you and me to talk about on message boeards, etc. So take it for its worth, like my opinion or not. But my opinion is mine alone and it is that you have no business coming on here and saying things that take away from this great sport that i love. (opinions vary)

Please, please, stop showing your brashness and inexperience. Show your sense-if you have any. You're welcome to talk to me(or anyone) if you talk, and don't just deride my opinion, or say I psychologically need your attention, or whatever. I've had young students whom you make seem like Einsteins. To suggest that I write to an MMA page.. fooie !! THAT alone is insulting to a boxing man.

Make a reasoned, scientific, calculated response, with REAL intelligence to it, to show that you DO know boxing, and I'll discuss it with you. We all can be in error, but you don't have to show that you're proud of being foolish.

I could say all sorts of things that I've done which I might not have done, but then, I'd be like you or others. My personal dignity means more to me than making boastful, cheap, untrue statements. So I never do. I've had over 50 years of close boxing experience, and have sparred with two world pro champions and several European amateur champions. My trainer for years was the best amateur boxer ever produced in Ireland, a 6-7 time successive National Champion, as well as European "best" boxer. I even think he was Golden Gloves champ too. He was as good as any pro. And HE was mainly satisfied with my ring performances, although he often said I could do better. He'd show me personally, which I usually didn't like at all. So if I never stepped into the ring at all, and just watched, I'd still have more than enough boxing knowledge.

It's only a whim of mine that I'm answering you at all, since I'm old enough to be your father at least, probably your grandfather, and internet threats show a low level of intelligence........

[edgarg]

i thought the ref could have stopped it a number of times during the 7th. lee was getting hit with too many unanswered punches. unfortunately he chose to stop it as lee threw a lazy counter (there was nothing behind this punch, and it was more out of instinct/muscle memory than it was a counter).

so, not a bad stoppage, just bad timing. vera was clearly hurting lee. you could see it in his legs and the way his head was snapping back with every punch.

i like refs who let em fight. but from a referee's standpoint, 1 punch too many can be the difference between life and death for the fighter. both guys live to fight another fight.

That's EXACTLY what I've written and whats-his-name- Chase something or other, just tore me to pieces over it. So it looks as if you and I are both guys who REALLY KNOW boxing, and the other one just pretends. I also thought that Lee wasn't taking advantage of his opportunities enough whenhe had them-which was often.

As for that ONE PUNCH too many. I saw, actually saw Emile Griffith kill Benny Paret in the ring. Ruby Goldstein, not only a TOP ref, but a top fighter too in his day, let it go on more than a few punches too long, and no-one called out STOP ! No one was concerned that the poor guy had had a VERY tough fight with much heavier middleweight champ Gene Fullmer just a couple of months earlier and had been beaten all around the ring. They said "he's tough, he can take lots of punishment". And he took it. Something that happens all to often, and there seems nothing can be done about it, except leave it up to the ref. I get no enjoyment from such fights. In this case, Lee was on the verge of being seriously damaged, and we won't know if he was, until we see how the end of his career plays out.