If Wladimir was American and black, would he be more accepted as a top heavyweight?

[abadger]

Look, the American public came to respect Lewis, but they didn't like the fact that he was in their minds a passive fighter. Even though he beat both men who beat him, people remembered lewis for getting knocked out twice. Wlad got knocked out 3 times. Ali, Holmes, and even Tyson before he went to jail weren't ko'd 3 times in their primes. Holmes was a slick boxer who never impressed the public, just us diehards. He didn't get respect until his career was over. So please, save the "if he were Black and/or American thoughts. The heavy weight champ is either dominant like ali, a non stop puncher like marciano, or a brutal puncher like mike tyson. Those are the types of fighters America loves. Like most fans, Americans love punchers. Wlad can't fight inside so we won't ever get that kind of fight from him. Americans will never love Wlad. I?t isn't his fault, they just don't like his style of fighting as much as diehard fans do.

If Wlad was American he would be a megastar. He might not be as popular as say, Tyson, but he would still be massively popular. I don't see how anyone can deny this. can you really see American fans saying "we hate our HW champion, he is a disgrace to boxing"? There is no chance this would ever happen.

[The Hammer]

One more thing lol. Cooney and Holmes were first scheduled to fight in March of 82 but COONEY pulled out because of a shoulder injury.So what did that have to do with King? Also, it was not a year and half long layoff anyway.Your information is false.

Your information is false.

Cooney was inactive for over a year before the Holmes fight, because of Don King's lack of cooperation, not because of any injury. Cooney was coming off two first-round KO wins over Lyle and Norton. In Cooney vs. Holmes, the referee who deducted the three points from Cooney was probably paid off by King, the point deductions upset and distracted Cooney, so he fought less smartly. Two of the judges had the fight close, Jerry Roth's score was ridiculous. It didn't go to the judges anyway...

And yes, King would not let Cooney into a big fight for over two years after the Holmes fight. If Cooney really did turn to ******* abuse, he didn't make matters any better for himself. After than, Cooney's prime was gone.

At that time the American public did want a white heavyweight champion, although the boxing establishment did not. But nowadays (quarter-century later) people are resigned to the now deeply-rooted, irrational belief that white men are athletically inferior.

Last year, I mentioned to someone at work about upcoming Wlad vs. Austin fight. He asked "Is Austin black", I said "yes". He said "Klitschko's big - is Austin a lot smaller?" I said "No, they're about the same size." He said "then Austin will win."

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=Tunney;3750580]Your information is false.
And yes, King would not let Cooney into a big fight for over two years after the Holmes fight. If Cooney really did turn to ******* abuse, he didn't make matters any better for himself. After than, Cooney's prime was gone.
Cooney was inactive for over a year before the Holmes fight, because of Don King's lack of cooperation, not because of any injury. Cooney was coming off two first-round KO wins over Lyle and Norton. In Cooney vs. Holmes, the referee who deducted the three points from Cooney was probably paid off by King, the point deductions upset and distracted Cooney, so he fought less smartly. Two of the judges had the fight close, Jerry Roth's score was ridiculous. It didn't go to the judges anyway...



Lets see, Mills Lane (a judge) paid off by King, No injury to Cooney that postponed the fight? Boxing didn't want a White Chmapion? Hmmmmmm:

Nevertheless, if Cooney won, he would be the first white world heavyweight champion in 23 years (since Swede Ingemar Johansson defeated Floyd Patterson by a third round TKO), which prompted Don King to call him "The Great White Hope." In this circus atmosphere, the upcoming fight drew huge attention worldwide. Larry Holmes vs. Gerry Cooney was one of the biggest closed-circuit/pay-per-view productions in history, broadcast to over 150 countries.After they were both signed to fight, an intense promotional tour followed. Holmes and Cooney attended press conferences at several United States cities, Cooney was shown on the cover of Time magazine, Hollywood stars took an interest in the fight (Sylvester Stallone in particular hung out with Gerry Cooney, others, such as Woody Allen, attended the fight live) and Cooney was cast as "The Great White Hope". There had not been a White world Heavyweight champion in 22 years, and Cooney would try to change that. White supremacist groups had announced they would have "agents" ready to shoot at Holmes the moment he entered the ring. By round ten, Cooney's punches began landing low, and this caused him to fall further behind on the judges' scorecards, referee Lane deducting three points from him for the infractions.I A lot of racial tension was involved with this fight, with Cooney considered "the great white hope" and the best white heavyweight since Rocky Marciano. Strangely, during the prefight introductions,Holmes was announced first and Cooney second, although champions are traditionally announced second.
Holmes-Cooney was originally scheduled for March 1982, but was postponed until June when Cooney injured his back in training.es was announced first and Cooney second, although champions are traditionally announced second

[Boofdatruth]

If Wlad was American he would be a megastar. He might not be as popular as say, Tyson, but he would still be massively popular. I don't see how anyone can deny this. can you really see American fans saying "we hate our HW champion, he is a disgrace to boxing"? There is no chance this would ever happen.

Are we going by the thread title, or are you just saying if Wlad were a white American heavyweight champion? Black or white, Wlad would not be popular unless he was a ko artist or a dominant champion. He was knocked out in his prime 3 times, 3 times..! Lets go by this scenario, and then you can mention yours. Wlad would've been celebrated for winning gold for the Americans and propped up say on HBO as the next great champion by many, and to mainstream America the next "white hope". He would've been riding this momentum right up until he is knocked out by Ross Purrity... on HBO. He would've gotten over the loss and became popular again with some wins on ESPN, and then back on HBO or Showtime right up until he lost by KO to the South African Sanders. America might have been split over why Wlad is giving a title shot to a South African who might unfairly have been seen as an advocate of Apartheid. Also it may have not been a big deal that he is fighting Sanders and even welcomed as America would hope he destroys Sanders. Wlad might've been roasted by American fight fans losing to Sanders if he lost. Then Wlad loses to Sanders in 2 rounds. Now, for a third time...he would get some wins under his belt and again be spot lighted on a major network only to be ko'd by Brewster in 5. You think America would back him with his 3 losses, and unpopular fights/decisions over Austin, Williams and Byrd, Ibagimov? Please. American fight fans are finicky. They will only back a great champion, or an up and coming caucasian champion who never lost, and a champion who is beating great comp. It isn't Wlad's fault. The American public backed Cooney, till he lost. Larry Holmes, the superb boxer who beat Cooney was never popular. Holyfield was popular because of his heart against the big guys, but never truly accepted as a great heavy, just a respectable warrior and great fighter. Byrd was never popular. Neither was Tommy Morrison. Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali were very popular. You have to be able to fight, and take chances as the heavyweight champion. The American public does not see that from Wlad.

[120]

I don't know about being american and black. But i would put my life's worth that if he was american, just that, there wouldn't be as much criticism as he gets...

[Addition]

I don't know about being american and black. But i would put my life's worth that if he was american, just that, there wouldn't be as much criticism as he gets...

The American part is right but the black part is bollocks.

[Boofdatruth]

I don't know about being american and black. But i would put my life's worth that if he was american, just that, there wouldn't be as much criticism as he gets...

Yes there would be a lot of criticism. Americans love great all around fighters. Wlad, for as big and as strong as he is still fights like an amateur at times. He can't fight a war on the inside, he still grabs your neck when you get close. Americam fight fans respect a good outside game, and they love a complete inside game. Wlad's losses are all a result of not being able to fight inside. He'd rather use his jab and keep you at the end of it. fine, but the guys who walked through his jab not only beat him, but ko'd him.

[Mike Tyson77]

Last year, I mentioned to someone at work about upcoming Wlad vs. Austin fight. He asked "Is Austin black", I said "yes". He said "Klitschko's big - is Austin a lot smaller?" I said "No, they're about the same size." He said "then Austin will win."

You told him what happened, right?

[MWMerlino]

All the really good heavyweights of the 70s, 80s, and 90s were black men, so even the white boxing fans are used to the best boxers being black! Sometimes as well, women and gay white men who are boxing fans have a strong attraction to black boxers.

It will take boxing fans awhile to get used to successful white fighters like Wlad, just like it took some people awile to get used to Joe Louis being champion all those years ago. Remember, Jack Johnson was critisised a hundred years ago just as much as Wlad is today.

This is a ridiculous post and I'll tell you why: Your intent with this thread is to validate your insecurity about a boxer you like. You want their to be some other reason that he is not well regarded besides his glass chin, awkward boxing style, and unwillingness to mix it up. Even Emmanuel Steward, the man who trains him, told him to go for the KO against Sultan because he looked bad. But you want to divert from that and point to his race and ethnicity.

Fine. But just because history looks kindly on Ali, and black fighters of the 70's, doesn't mean that at the time they were adored in the same way or at all. Cassius Clay took over for Joe Louis, and if you don't know what he had to go through in order to get by in the boxing world then you should stop posting here and educate yourself.

Imagine a young Cassius Clay, coming from the south during the same time Luther King was shot in the neck. Imagine the rise of the Black Panthers, Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam and what that did to a racist white society. Now Clay becomes ******, changes his name to Muhammed Ali (after the prohpet Mohammed). Not only this, but Ali draft dodges, and travels the country speaking out against the war.

All we see is the rosy picture, and yes many people loved him, the radicalization of the 70's allowed for a new generation of white people to appreciate him. But you don't see what he had to endure, the kind of barriers for him, the hate. Some of his biggest fights were fought outside of the country. That should tell you something.

And thats just Ali's story. To a good portion of the populous, these boxers were still big scary ******s beating the snot out of each other for every ones enjoyment.

So if you want to debate about Wlads challenges as Ukranian, fine. You may have a point. But please don't shoot off at the mouth about things you don't care to understand, using important people and events as pawns in your silly argument.

[The Hammer]

If Wlad was only black, he'd by now be considered a great heavyweight.