Cotto vs a Prime Tszyu: Who Wins at 144?

[aussieboxer2320]

btw, tszyu was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past his best when he lost to hatton , a prime tszyu would have ripped him apart

[ippo]

Prime kosta would ko cotto.What torres did to cotto,kosta would put cotto to sleep.

[crillz]

tszyu would destroy him at any weight he was an absoulote freak with his brilliant timing and explosive power, remember, cotto took 11 rounds to finish a past his best zab judah (after he had weakened zab with low blows) while tszyu knocked a prime judah out cold in 2 rounds, tszyu by a fairly quick KO

don't use 1 fight to decide who would win another one, just look at Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr and Glen Johnson, Roy beat Bernard, Bernard beat glen and Glen beat Roy so just because Roy beat Bernard and Bernard beat Glen don't mean Glen can't beat Roy ya feel me? see you also have to remember that when Zab fell it was his ******ity that lost him the fight, instead of being humble and staying down for 8 and gather his feet, especially with the round about to be over in like 5 seconds, he decided to just jump up while his feet were still spaghetti and he fell back down, he got hit hard and due to his jumpy style he dropped and couldn't gather himself right away but he was okay he had just never been hit so hard and flush so he fell and due to PURE ignorance he got up and fell again forcing the referee to halt the fight, had he just stayed down not only would the round have ended but he would have had a few seconds to gather himself and continue and a full minute to regroup in the corner and come out with more respect for Tszyu's power, another chance to repeat the 1st round for the rest of the night..

no disrespect to Tszyu because I respect the **** out of him and admire his accomplishments but Zab Judah could have played it smart and walked away a Decision winner had he had more humility and mental strength, all he had to do was stay down for the 8 and wait until he regrouped and he would have gotten a FULL minute in his corner and time to come out in the 3rd and continue what he started in the 1st and the duration of the 2nd until that right hand landed. not because it took Tszyu 2 rounds and Cotto 11 will you say Tszyu can beat Cotto when Judah didn't fall the way he did against Tszyu to Cotto, he fell because he could no longer fight while against Tszyu he could have he just, for the sake of saving face to the fans who IN HIS OWN mind thought he was superman, got back up knowing he had spaghetti legs.. not to say Tszyu couldn't have won the fight regardless but THAT much is evident, Cotto beat Judah more convincingly because he beat the fight out of him and didn't just land 1 punch that Zab's own ******ity prevented him from getting up again.

[crillz]

Prime kosta would ko cotto.What torres did to cotto,kosta would put cotto to sleep.

don't forget that it takes A LOT out of you to do to a fighter what Torres did to Cotto, it's why Cotto was able to get back up and KO Torres, when Torres was on all four's don't think exhaustion had nothing to do with it, he didn't have the strength to get up again and he was very hurt too. he caught Cotto good but it took a lot out of him too as it would have for Tszyu and you never really know how Tszyu would have reacted to Cotto's punches who tends to punch in bunches, the same exact way Vince Phillips beat him, accurate power punching and Cotto is VERY capable of doing that. Cotto is a strong man so to say he couldn't do it at 140 is not good, regardless of any troubles he may have had at 140 he always came back to win so to say he couldn't against Tszyu when he did it against 3 other people is absurd but it's questionable. honestly I think going by the thread and adding the 4 extra pounds that Cotto would have been able to maneuver around Kostya's right hand and connect with his own punches.. but just like I told homie above you dogz you can't use the Torres fight to stamp your claim on a Cotto fight, you can do it but it would be foolish.

[BennyST]

don't forget that it takes A LOT out of you to do to a fighter what Torres did to Cotto, it's why Cotto was able to get back up and KO Torres, when Torres was on all four's don't think exhaustion had nothing to do with it, he didn't have the strength to get up again and he was very hurt too. he caught Cotto good but it took a lot out of him too as it would have for Tszyu and you never really know how Tszyu would have reacted to Cotto's punches who tends to punch in bunches, the same exact way Vince Phillips beat him, accurate power punching and Cotto is VERY capable of doing that. Cotto is a strong man so to say he couldn't do it at 140 is not good, regardless of any troubles he may have had at 140 he always came back to win so to say he couldn't against Tszyu when he did it against 3 other people is absurd but it's questionable. honestly I think going by the thread and adding the 4 extra pounds that Cotto would have been able to maneuver around Kostya's right hand and connect with his own punches.. but just like I told homie above you dogz you can't use the Torres fight to stamp your claim on a Cotto fight, you can do it but it would be foolish.

Cheers for the post compliment man

Indeed, but neither can you use the Vince Phillips fight as a gauge to what Cotto might do to Tszyu. Tszyu was a very different fighter after the Phillips loss. Before then he trained very differently and had become overly confident of his skills. Seeing as we're talking about a prime Tszyu (The Tszyu that put a monstrous beatdown on Miguel Angel Gonzales) Cotto would have no chance of out-boxing Tszyu. While Cotto has shown reasonably impressive boxing skills in some fights it isn't enough to warrant him beating Tszyu in a boxing match. Tszyu was never beaten in a boxing match. It plays in to the way he fights perfectly and would keep him fighting his fight at a comfortable pace.

A prime Tszyu also has stamina to go twelve hard rounds and he himself was a very vicious body puncher. I never once saw Tszyu hurt to the body or slowed down by body shots. He had good defense against them. I can't see Cotto bringing that part of his game into effect enough for it to influence the outcome.

I think the difference between Torres/Corley etc is that while they had Cotto hurt neither of them were very good finishers. In his prime there was not a better finisher in the game than Tszyu. If he had an opponent hurt, they lost.

You make some great points but I really can't see any way that Cotto could out-box Tszyu. If we're talking prime then there is just no way that he would out-box him. While Cotto is good and he has shown some skills in the boxing department they are still no where near the level that a prime Tszyu could display. If it turned into a boxing match, as I said before, that would be playing into Tszyu perfect game and Tszyu would win that. If not by a KO then definitely a UD.

Cottos only chance to beat a prime Tszyu would be to swarm completely as Hatton did and not allow him the space or the ability to get set to throw anything, but, Cotto just doesn't fight like that. He fights in a patient methodical manner which again suits Tszyu perfectly. If you allowed Tszyu to get set then I don't think there is a fighter that was at 140 that could have beaten him. He showed all the skills needed to beat a fighter like Cotto throughout his career and never had any problems with similar fighters (prime Tszyu) whereas Cotto has shown a number of weak points in his game which he has, so far, been good enough to overcome or the opponents not good enough to finish on. Tszyu would finish on it (against the hard punching Torres, Cotto looked very vulnerable at points. Tszyu is more powerful than Torres but more importantly he is a much, much better all round fighter and in his prime didn't tire down the stretch).

[crillz]

Cheers for the post compliment man

Indeed, but neither can you use the Vince Phillips fight as a gauge to what Cotto might do to Tszyu. Tszyu was a very different fighter after the Phillips loss. Before then he trained very differently and had become overly confident of his skills. Seeing as we're talking about a prime Tszyu (The Tszyu that put a monstrous beatdown on Miguel Angel Gonzales) Cotto would have no chance of out-boxing Tszyu. While Cotto has shown reasonably impressive boxing skills in some fights it isn't enough to warrant him beating Tszyu in a boxing match. Tszyu was never beaten in a boxing match. It plays in to the way he fights perfectly and would keep him fighting his fight at a comfortable pace.

A prime Tszyu also has stamina to go twelve hard rounds and he himself was a very vicious body puncher. I never once saw Tszyu hurt to the body or slowed down by body shots. He had good defense against them. I can't see Cotto bringing that part of his game into effect enough for it to influence the outcome.

I think the difference between Torres/Corley etc is that while they had Cotto hurt neither of them were very good finishers. In his prime there was not a better finisher in the game than Tszyu. If he had an opponent hurt, they lost.

You make some great points but I really can't see any way that Cotto could out-box Tszyu. If we're talking prime then there is just no way that he would out-box him. While Cotto is good and he has shown some skills in the boxing department they are still no where near the level that a prime Tszyu could display. If it turned into a boxing match, as I said before, that would be playing into Tszyu perfect game and Tszyu would win that. If not by a KO then definitely a UD.

Cottos only chance to beat a prime Tszyu would be to swarm completely as Hatton did and not allow him the space or the ability to get set to throw anything, but, Cotto just doesn't fight like that. He fights in a patient methodical manner which again suits Tszyu perfectly. If you allowed Tszyu to get set then I don't think there is a fighter that was at 140 that could have beaten him. He showed all the skills needed to beat a fighter like Cotto throughout his career and never had any problems with similar fighters (prime Tszyu) whereas Cotto has shown a number of weak points in his game which he has, so far, been good enough to overcome or the opponents not good enough to finish on. Tszyu would finish on it (against the hard punching Torres, Cotto looked very vulnerable at points. Tszyu is more powerful than Torres but more importantly he is a much, much better all round fighter and in his prime didn't tire down the stretch).

once again homie a very good post, I can't do nothing but hold on to my opinion because I can't point out any flaws in your post, you made facts and further enforced them with more facts so there is no room for debate, it is clear that you feel how you feel about Tszyu and I feel how I feel about Cotto. I do feel that the 4 pounds would make a BIG difference in the way Cotto comes into the fight, see Cotto punches in volume and I just feel that with Kostya all you really have to do is stay active..

Sharmba Mitchell did it in the first fight and would have won if not due to a blown out knee IMO, Vince Phillips did the same thing, he stood active and threw punches in bunches and all the while when he wasn't throwing he moved and made himself either harder to hit or he clinched. I just feel like Cotto had more fundamentals and the thing that Kostya had to his favor was the right hand, Cotto is VERY VERY vulnerable to that punch and this is why I can't really debate your post or your opinion, a right hand from Kostya means lights out, but Cotto has shown a tendency to rebound well, almost as if he brings just enough to revive himself from a KO, it's something unbelievable like when I saw Cotto-Torres live and not to say that he could do that against Tszyu but Cotto has done better with more weight on him so I think the 4 pounds will help him..

I don't want to write too much more but I will say this, Cotto and Kostya both add up to their own stature and it's very hard to doubt either of the 2, this is a fight that would just have to happen in order to see whats what but one thing is for sure, neither of them are anything to play with and if anyone came half assed he will lose.. even though I stand by my opinion of Cotto winning I very much respect your opinion because it is non biased and true, I can't include the Vince Phillips loss to how I feel Cotto will win because Tszyu was an all around different fighter, like Cintron was against Mathysse and Margarito so the same flaws don't apply, you were correct with that much homie and I respect your opinion 100%.

[Burning Desire]

At Jr Welterweight Tszyu KO's Cotto, although Cotto has the style to beat Tszyu because Tszyu didn't deal with swarmer's well aka Phillips aka Hatton. Cotto doesn't have the chin at Jr Welterweight he was struggling to make the weight and he looked very vulnerable and nowhere near as strong as he is at Welterweight, Tszyu is one of the hardest hitting Jr Welterweights of all time if he got Cotto in trouble he would finish him off unlike Torres, Corley.

[NachoMan]

This is just about the hardest fight to pick that I can think of. Since I'm a much bigger fan of Tyszu, I'll pick Tszyu UD Cotto. Both chins would have gotten tested, but I think they both finish on their feet. I think that Tszyu was a better boxer and might have landed more cleanly over 12 rounds to take a close unanimous decision. This, of course, if the fight was fought anywhere but MSG.

[MetalVomit]

Tszyu KO5 Cotto, prime for prime. Cotto's chin is too shaky, KT would be able to finish him off after rocking him.

[dfwtx]

i would have loved to have seen that and im confident tszyu could knock him out or at least stick the ud, his power and intelligence are hard to beat