opinion of boxing

[thecrowrains]

All his demonstrations are against guys who seem to anticipate what he's already going to do. From what I can see, this style is dependent on whether the opponent has defense. Alot of these "attackers" just come in with no defense and get easily exposed.

2008/1/31

'2501',

I see your point: these guys (Wing Tsun) are dependent on an opponents' lack of defense or not. I see your point, but oddly I actually took the time to listen to what this man was saying on his YouTube clip and he was stating that 'his offense is his defense' or something to that effect.

My question 2501, is that his partner is not "really" trying to hit him, in front of all those people at his demonstration. It's a demonstration atmosphere, not a sanctioned, real fight. I could be wrong, maybe his training partners are goin' all out trying to hit him during his seminar.

I enjoyed your take on what you viewed.

[2501]

2008/1/31

'2501',

I see your point: these guys (Wing Tsun) are dependent on an opponents' lack of defense or not. I see your point, but oddly I actually took the time to listen to what this man was saying on his YouTube clip and he was stating that 'his offense is his defense' or something to that effect.

My question 2501, is that his partner is not "really" trying to hit him, in front of all those people at his demonstration. It's a demonstration atmosphere, not a sanctioned, real fight. I could be wrong, maybe his training partners are goin' all out trying to hit him during his seminar.

I enjoyed your take on what you viewed.

I'm not going to pretend I know everything about martial arts. I only really know boxing techniques. There are various ways to box for example, you can stay at arm's length measuring your strikes to ensure that you do not get close enough to your opponent to where he is able to work on your body or other areas of easy attack. This Win Tsun style seems to work best when an opponent is close enough to have your arms in a bent position most of the time. How would Win Tsun be affective against an opponent is works from the outside as opposed to the inside?

[thecrowrains]

how coindidental, they are exploring the Wing Tsun style on Human Weapon right now.

2501,

Interesting, so that television show Human Weapon is supportive of Wing Tsun or against? 2501, what is your opinion of how Emin Boztepe initiates his offense (or as they put it, their offense-defense)?

[tredh]

All his demonstrations are against guys who seem to anticipate what he's already going to do. From what I can see, this style is dependent on whether the opponent has defense. Alot of these "attackers" just come in with no defense and get easily exposed.

Nothing against you 2501 but everything in the first video seems coreographed so I didn't even watch the second video. With it seeming to be coreographed you can't get a real view how this stuff works. Also the dude always seemed counter he was never the aggressor.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Greetings,

First time post here. I joined this forum to get the truth, sotospeak from the horse's mouth, regarding boxing.

I'm not a boxer, but in my studies of another form of fighting, Jeet Kune Do (JKD), I've come to respect boxing's influence on JKD. I realize my question might be like 'preaching to the choir', but there seems to be a disparaging outlook towards boxing in other martial arts groups, particularly the Wing Tsun (WT)group(s).

My training in JKD has obviously included having an understanding of Wing Chun, as JKD's founder started in Wing Chun, and he relied heavily on the principles of Wing Chun as well as boxing.

Of note, the WT groups seem to use boxing as an example of inefficient techniques whenever they teach to their students.

I personally think both are good in their own right, but I thought it would be wise hear from boxers themselves on their view of WT.

Lastly, I tend to think it's the man himself that determines the victor, not the style, art, etc.

regards,
Eric

This actually a very good indepth post and question. The first thing you need to realize is that Boxing is a specialized martial art. If you are trying to comair it to Gung-Fu or any other marital art where more offensive and defensive strategies are invloved then you would be right to think that boxing is "insufficient".

It doesn't mean that boxing can't be deadly or used as protection. Or even be effective against other forms of martial arts, it just doesn't cover the complete range of choices you might have with your complete body.

Obviously kicking, grappling, punching, elbows, knees can all be used as a weapon and choices in different martial arts. What makes boxing so appealing to me and others I think is that it's a SPECIALIZED form of martial art. I would put a world class boxer against any martial artist of ANY style in the use of just fist's. No martial artist could display the talent of just striking with the fist's the way a boxer does, no one.

To be a complete fighter you must study ALL styles and come up with your own, that best fits your strength's and hides your weakness's.

Thats was Bruce Lee's basic principle when creating Jeet Kun Do, he wanted you to be flexible, like "water". He refused to give into the structured formats of kata's and designated style's that were given by Gung-Fu or Karate for example. If you look at his principles and the MMA world today, Bruce was decades ahead of the game because the best MMA fighter's study ALL styles to make themselves comlete fighters.

[2501]

Nothing against you 2501 but everything in the first video seems coreographed so I didn't even watch the second video. With it seeming to be coreographed you can't get a real view how this stuff works. Also the dude always seemed counter he was never the aggressor.

thats what i was saying, without actually seeing him use it in actual combat, cant really gage how efficient it would be against a boxing technique.

[moin126]

Well, if what you say is true, the Wu Tang and the Shoalin could be dangerous.

ROFL, you owned with that one.
No doubt.

[thecrowrains]

This actually a very good indepth post and question. The first thing you need to realize is that Boxing is a specialized martial art. If you are trying to comair it to Gung-Fu or any other marital art where more offensive and defensive strategies are invloved then you would be right to think that boxing is "insufficient".

It doesn't mean that boxing can't be deadly or used as protection. Or even be effective against other forms of martial arts, it just doesn't cover the complete range of choices you might have with your complete body.

Obviously kicking, grappling, punching, elbows, knees can all be used as a weapon and choices in different martial arts. What makes boxing so appealing to me and others I think is that it's a SPECIALIZED form of martial art. I would put a world class boxer against any martial artist of ANY style in the use of just fist's. No martial artist could display the talent of just striking with the fist's the way a boxer does, no one.

To be a complete fighter you must study ALL styles and come up with your own, that best fits your strength's and hides your weakness's.

Thats was Bruce Lee's basic principle when creating Jeet Kun Do, he wanted you to be flexible, like "water". He refused to give into the structured formats of kata's and designated style's that were given by Gung-Fu or Karate for example. If you look at his principles and the MMA world today, Bruce was decades ahead of the game because the best MMA fighter's study ALL styles to make themselves comlete fighters.

Thanks for the reply (above):

I would agree, that to truly understand fighting it is important to learn differing "styles" or even lineages within a certain martial art.

To respond to your point, that boxers are the best for using only their fists is during combat, I'd be unwise to disagree with you. Boxing is pure, simple, but also complex depending on the combinations. It seems to lend itself to ultimate athleticism, just look at any high calibre boxer, Pacquiao, Jones, Trinidad, etc, etc. They're all pure athletes.

Of any weaknesses, well, they don't use their feet during combat, but like you said boxing is a specialized art, to its credit.

Of any weaknesses, in Wing Tsun, I would have to agree with '2501's' comment that they seem to rely strictly on the close-range interception of their opponents' arms. *to initiate arm traps and interceptions. '2501' made an interesting point = if one can stay outside of the close-range to execute strikes, then they might just keep the upper hand in a real fight.

I appreciate all your input. Your point about Bruce Lee is true: he was decades ahead of a generation of fighters and martial artists.

peace, Eric.

[2501]

Thanks for the reply (above):

I would agree, that to truly understand fighting it is important to learn differing "styles" or even lineages within a certain martial art.

To respond to your point, that boxers are the best for using only their fists is during combat, I'd be unwise to disagree with you. Boxing is pure, simple, but also complex depending on the combinations. It seems to lend itself to ultimate athleticism, just look at any high calibre boxer, Pacquiao, Jones, Trinidad, etc, etc. They're all pure athletes.

Of any weaknesses, well, they don't use their feet during combat, but like you said boxing is a specialized art, to its credit.

Of any weaknesses, in Wing Tsun, I would have to agree with '2501's' comment that they seem to rely strictly on the close-range interception of their opponents' arms. *to initiate arm traps and interceptions. '2501' made an interesting point = if one can stay outside of the close-range to execute strikes, then they might just keep the upper hand in a real fight.

I appreciate all your input. Your point about Bruce Lee is true: he was decades ahead of a generation of fighters and martial artists.

peace, Eric.

Thanx for posting about the positions others practitioners have towards boxing and being very informative and open for civil debate. Wish more posters shared your posting style. (no ****)

[moin126]

On this subject. Bruce lee saw the flaws of wing tsun, and tradintional styles.
He actually implemented alot of western boxing into jkd. I guess thats the reason your here.
His basic stance, is the philly shell stance, have you read the tao of jkd?

To be honest, i was once like you, I actually started with martial arts, then i saw the flaws, hopped to kickboxing, now im boxing lol.
Because its much deeper, and the art is very pure and developed.

I actually reccomend tao of jkd to anyone, it makes you appreciate bruce lee alot more, It has alot of knowledge bruce, found from various boxing books
and his own ideas on certain qualities.
i still read it to this day. I bought it when i was 13 lol.

The reason i actually like mayweather as a fighter, is because he shows all the qualities bruce described in that book.
-mobility, footwork, technique, economy of motion, non telegrahpic moves.
Feints ducks slips shoulder rolls, you name it.
Lennox lewis said that mayweather almost moves like a martial artist, i guess thats why i relate to him.

More specifik on your question. Well Like bruce said, its organized, Those techniques shown in clips are routined, in a real fight there is broken rhytem and those fancy moves dont work that well. In early mma and still wing tsun guys come in mma and get sumbitted instantly. IF you wanna be street effective, do boxing + bjj thats it forget wc.