Who is the greatest Junior Welterwieght ever??

[rebmogul]

Thats wht happens when you fight bums in your first 45 fights and then step it up.

Chavez had a padded record

really? why don't you first share the names of the bums he beat in his first 45UNDEFEATED FIGHTS.

and then give us the names of the bums he fought and beat (most by KO) in his first 30 UNDEFEATED TITLE DEFENSES.

yes, 85-0 w/ 74 KOS was some padding. now give me the name of the fighters who did this by fighting all the competition Chavez was ducking.

obviously, the only the only thing padded is your intellect

[rebmogul]

Only Cervantes? What?!? 114-4-14! The guy was a freak and I would certainly throw him in the top three of all time. What about the names Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown, Carlos Ortiz, the aforementioned Cervantes, Carlos Hernandez, Adolph Pruitt? Nearly all HOF'ers! The guy he first won the title off wasn't so bad either. I can't remember his name at the moment.

Aaron Pryor was great but I sometimes think he was more unfulfilled talent and rated so high because of that and his exciting style of course! Really, he only beat Arguello, albeit twice in some of the greatest fights ever.

I would also throw Tszyu in there, although not at the top. Definitely top five, arguably top two. He ruled the division for a decade and has quite the resume to go with it as well but is unfortunately dropped a bit with those terrible losses he had against guys who should have been a walk over for him. Julio Chavez, Calvin Grove, Juan La Porte, Jesse James Leija, Livingstone Bramble, Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Rafael Ruelas, Diosbelys Hurtado (who coincidently had only lost to Whitaker before fighting Tszyu in which he was in front a fair way on all cards before screwing it up and getting TKO'ed in the last round I think), Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Jan Bergman, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, etc. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

Chavez and Whitaker both had good runs but their best work was done in other divisions. It's actually quite hard to pick as the Jr Welter division has been packed full of talent from the absolute get-go and had some of the best fighters out there. If Duran hadn't skipped to fight Palomino and Leonard he would also be mentioned here with these guys.

As for the top man? I think it's much, much too subjective. There are quite a number who could be given the top spot with great arguments made for all. Locche, Pryor, Tszyu, Whitaker, Chavez. We also mustn't forget 'Kid Pambele'! He could be argued to have the top spot as well. He beat many, many brilliant fighters. There are a number more who I can't think of right now and all be could possibly be up there. Great exciting division!

**** dude, i don't know half the names of the fighters you mention here so looks like you got me and i'll just take your word for it...

[Fox McCloud]

**** dude, i don't know half the names of the fighters you mention here so looks like you got me and i'll just take your word for it...

Lol, no shame in not knowing the names of fighters a really good fighter beat outside of your home country and not in recent memory either.

Basically, a guy from a few eras back who fought outside of the US primarily... not shameful if you don't know everything about his career.

We just should be glad we have historians like Benny to teach us, and I'm not being sarcastic either.

Thanks Benny!

[TheGreatA]

Nicolino Locche record 117-4 WBC champion 68-72
Antonio Cervantes record 91-12 WBA champion 72-76, 77-80
Aaron Pryor record 39-1 WBA champion 80-83 IBF champion 84-85
Julio Cesar Chavez record 107-6 WBC champion 89-90 WBC&IBF champion 90-91 WBC champion 91-94 WBC champion 94-96
Kostya Tszyu 31-2 IBF champion 95-95 WBC champion 98-01 WBC&WBA&IBF champion 01-03 IBF champion 04-05

[Sugar_ITA]

Cervantes and Pryor.

[BennyST]

Lol, no shame in not knowing the names of fighters a really good fighter beat outside of your home country and not in recent memory either.

Basically, a guy from a few eras back who fought outside of the US primarily... not shameful if you don't know everything about his career.

We just should be glad we have historians like Benny to teach us, and I'm not being sarcastic either.

Thanks Benny!

Hey, no worries man. It really is a great division and since it's inception has had so many fantastic fighters thats it's just so hard to pick two or three, or even five of the best. Locche is one of my favourite fighters and obviously him being from Argentina and fighting predominantly there is not that well known anywhere else (even though I'm Australian).

Rebmogul: You should check those guys out. All stunning fighters...Although I'm not exactly sure if you're talking about the guys Locche fought or the guys Tszyu fought. If Tszyu hadn't lost to Phillips I would consider putting him at the top. If he hadn't lost to Phillips he also would have probably fought DeLa Hoya. They were starting to set up a super fight looking at those two but unfortunately Tszyu had gotten over confident and lazy in training, consequently losing a fight he should have won easily. Anyway, he didn't so it makes no difference now.

But, I beg to differ in your view of no great fighters losing in only their twentieth fight. Conversely, how many fighters do you know fighting a former world champion in two different weight divisions and one of PR's best fighters in only his fourth fight? Or what about fighting former great lightweight champion Livingstone Bramble in only his tenth fight?! Winning his first title in only his fourteenth fight against Jake Rodriguez who was something like 28-2? Every fighter he fought after that fight was nearly undefeated with about six or seven being actual undefeated prospects like Judah 28-0 or Jan Bergman 32-0, Urkal 28-0. All the others were around 30-1, 40-2, 100-4 and champions. So, really, I don't think theres much you can say against him because apart from losing a ****** fight he fought the absolute best, ducked no one, unified the division for the first time in over thirty years and beat a ton of champions (former, present and future). Great fighter.

Unlike most fighters then he went straight for the big guys. The only fighter with a losing record on his resume was his second fight against a guy that was something like 10-19 or something. Every other fighter had a winning record and by winning, I mean winning. As in former champions, undefeated fighters, future champions and present champions and prospects. Apart from a small few obviously. I would also venture to say he was done by the time he fought Hatton. 36 years old with only two fights in about three years before that with most of those years being plagued by bad injury. He wasn't completely shot but he was far, far from his best.

Anyway, enough on Tszyu.

Actually I would definitely go with Cervantes or Locche as being the best 140 pound fighter in history. Locche was certainly the greatest pure boxer and I would even go so far to say the greatest defensive fighter ever along with Pep and Whitaker.

[Fox McCloud]

It is true that both Marquez brothers lost their pro debuts...

However, the usual rule is that a professional prospect that has a polished amatuer background is not supposed to lose in his first twenty fights. Tszyu was a prospect with the amatuer background, so it is true that he wasn't supposed to lose. He did come back and prove that he was a great fighter though through his career.

But don't be so quick to write a fighter off because they lost early in their career. Usually those are the diamonds in the rough that no one would have ever predicted would make it that high... Pacquiao, Margarito, Mayorga, etc.

[THe TRiNiTY]

Pryor then Chavez in his PRIME for me. Tszyu is a solid 3rd though.

[moochi]

between Pryor and Tszyu.

[JPRINCEOFBOXING]

In this era

lightweight- duran

juniorwelterweight-chavez

welterweight- whitaker

tszyu got knocked out by a journeyman in vince phillips i think that he was overrated. don't get me wrong he was a good fighter but i just don't think that he was a great one.hurtado almost had tszyu hatton who's also is overrated beat him and made him quit i think that chavez and pryor are the best i think that chavez beats pryor in a war and thats why i take chavez as the best juniorwelterweight ever p4p.