Who is the greatest Junior Welterwieght ever??

[rebmogul]

Chavez eeked out his win against Taylor, split with Randall, and his win was controversial, he was embarrassed by Whitaker... Chavez is great at 140 mostly because of technicalities. He didn't have the better of a lot of those fights IMO.

JC Chavez and I disagree with you. Chavez was slightly past his prime for all of these fights (68-0 w/ 60 KOS when he fought Taylor).

In his full prime, none of these fighters were in his class.

[rebmogul]

Chavez eeked out his win against Taylor, split with Randall, and his win was controversial, he was embarrassed by Whitaker... Chavez is great at 140 mostly because of technicalities. He didn't have the better of a lot of those fights IMO.

Also none of the fighters you mentuion even made it to 35 wins before there first loss. Chavez' first real loss didn't come until he was 89-0 against Randall. This was the first fight in his career when he was even knocked down.

What other jr welter has done that or even got to half those wins before their first loss?

And by this time Cahvez was obviously past his prime.

[Fox McCloud]

Also none of the fighters you mentuion even made it to 35 wins before there first loss. Chavez' first real loss didn't come until he was 89-0 against Randall. This was the first fight in his career when he was even knocked down.

What other jr welter has done that or even got to half those wins before their first loss?

And by this time Cahvez was obviously past his prime.

Do you not consider the Whitaker fight a real loss?

140 was the weight where it did show that a good slickster could beat him though...

Anyways, you should argue with someone else, because I just gave a short opinion on this topic, but I am not nearly as knowledgable as many of the other posters on here about historic topics.

[aussieboxer2320]

y are we even arguing this guys its kostya tszyu hands down in hes prime he would murder any other jr welterweight hatton only beat him cos he was faded and old , if he had fought hatton both in their primes hatton would have retired from boxing thats how bad tszyu would have beat him up he was the first guy to unite the division in 20 years

[rebmogul]

Do you not consider the Whitaker fight a real loss?

140 was the weight where it did show that a good slickster could beat him though...

Anyways, you should argue with someone else, because I just gave a short opinion on this topic, but I am not nearly as knowledgable as many of the other posters on here about historic topics.

take it easy bro, not arguing, just a debate.

actually i forgot the whitaker fight was before randall but basically my point is still the same. chavez was what 85-0 when they fought and hardly still in his prime.

and figure this, calzaghe has been undefeated for just over 10 years now and is what 43-0? when chavez fought whitaker he was undefeated for roughly 10years also but had twice as many fights and twice as many title defenses.

[rebmogul]

y are we even arguing this guys its kostya tszyu hands down in hes prime he would murder any other jr welterweight hatton only beat him cos he was faded and old , if he had fought hatton both in their primes hatton would have retired from boxing thats how bad tszyu would have beat him up he was the first guy to unite the division in 20 years

sorry buddy, kosta lost to vince phillips (KO'D) in only just his 20th fight (RING MAGAZINE UPSET OF THE YEAR!) and then completely taken apart by hatton in only his 34th fight. hard to say he was past his prime.

give me the name of another GREAT fighter that was KO'D in just their 20th fight?

[Fox McCloud]

take it easy bro, not arguing, just a debate.

actually i forgot the whitaker fight was before randall but basically my point is still the same. chavez was what 85-0 when they fought and hardly still in his prime.

and figure this, calzaghe has been undefeated for just over 10 years now and is what 43-0? when chavez fought whitaker he was undefeated for roughly 10years also but had twice as many fights and twice as many title defenses.

Heh, I didn't mean arguing arguing... I was just warning you that the extent of my knowledge on the subject had already been exhausted. If you want a good debate, you are going to have to find someone who knows more about it than me.

[BennyST]

I haven't seen him fight, but looking at his resume, most of his fights were fought in Argentina and the only recognizable name to me is Cervantes.

Only Cervantes? What?!? 114-4-14! The guy was a freak and I would certainly throw him in the top three of all time. What about the names Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown, Carlos Ortiz, the aforementioned Cervantes, Carlos Hernandez, Adolph Pruitt? Nearly all HOF'ers! The guy he first won the title off wasn't so bad either. I can't remember his name at the moment.

Aaron Pryor was great but I sometimes think he was more unfulfilled talent and rated so high because of that and his exciting style of course! Really, he only beat Arguello, albeit twice in some of the greatest fights ever.

I would also throw Tszyu in there, although not at the top. Definitely top five, arguably top two. He ruled the division for a decade and has quite the resume to go with it as well but is unfortunately dropped a bit with those terrible losses he had against guys who should have been a walk over for him. Julio Chavez, Calvin Grove, Juan La Porte, Jesse James Leija, Livingstone Bramble, Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Rafael Ruelas, Diosbelys Hurtado (who coincidently had only lost to Whitaker before fighting Tszyu in which he was in front a fair way on all cards before screwing it up and getting TKO'ed in the last round I think), Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Jan Bergman, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, etc. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

Chavez and Whitaker both had good runs but their best work was done in other divisions. It's actually quite hard to pick as the Jr Welter division has been packed full of talent from the absolute get-go and had some of the best fighters out there. If Duran hadn't skipped to fight Palomino and Leonard he would also be mentioned here with these guys.

As for the top man? I think it's much, much too subjective. There are quite a number who could be given the top spot with great arguments made for all. Locche, Pryor, Tszyu, Whitaker, Chavez. We also mustn't forget 'Kid Pambele'! He could be argued to have the top spot as well. He beat many, many brilliant fighters. There are a number more who I can't think of right now and all be could possibly be up there. Great exciting division!

[RageX]

Also none of the fighters you mentuion even made it to 35 wins before there first loss. Chavez' first real loss didn't come until he was 89-0 against Randall. This was the first fight in his career when he was even knocked down.

What other jr welter has done that or even got to half those wins before their first loss?

And by this time Cahvez was obviously past his prime.

Thats wht happens when you fight bums in your first 45 fights and then step it up.

Chavez had a padded record

[Silencers]

Only Cervantes? What?!? 114-4-14! The guy was a freak and I would certainly throw him in the top three of all time. What about the names Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown, Carlos Ortiz, the aforementioned Cervantes, Carlos Hernandez, Adolph Pruitt? Nearly all HOF'ers! The guy he first won the title off wasn't so bad either. I can't remember his name at the moment.

Aaron Pryor was great but I sometimes think he was more unfulfilled talent and rated so high because of that and his exciting style of course! Really, he only beat Arguello, albeit twice in some of the greatest fights ever.

I would also throw Tszyu in there, although not at the top. Definitely top five, arguably top two. He ruled the division for a decade and has quite the resume to go with it as well but is unfortunately dropped a bit with those terrible losses he had against guys who should have been a walk over for him. Julio Chavez, Calvin Grove, Juan La Porte, Jesse James Leija, Livingstone Bramble, Jake Rodriguez, Roger Mayweather, Rafael Ruelas, Diosbelys Hurtado (who coincidently had only lost to Whitaker before fighting Tszyu in which he was in front a fair way on all cards before screwing it up and getting TKO'ed in the last round I think), Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Jan Bergman, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, etc. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

Chavez and Whitaker both had good runs but their best work was done in other divisions. It's actually quite hard to pick as the Jr Welter division has been packed full of talent from the absolute get-go and had some of the best fighters out there. If Duran hadn't skipped to fight Palomino and Leonard he would also be mentioned here with these guys.

As for the top man? I think it's much, much too subjective. There are quite a number who could be given the top spot with great arguments made for all. Locche, Pryor, Tszyu, Whitaker, Chavez. We also mustn't forget 'Kid Pambele'! He could be argued to have the top spot as well. He beat many, many brilliant fighters. There are a number more who I can't think of right now and all be could possibly be up there. Great exciting division!

Thanks for the info, I missed Ortiz on his resume.