Joe Calzaghe is nothing "special"....

[-Hyperion-]

joe calzaghe is ten times more special than hopkins and pavlik....

[shawn_]

"He has next to no defense whatsoever"

Stop reading after that.

Me too. The guy has next to no defense in the same way that Roy Jones had no defense. In the same way that Muhammad Ali had no defense. In the same way that Pernell Whitaker had no defense.

Obviously he doe have defense because people seem to have trouble hitting him. Not a characteristic synonymous with lack of defense.

[shawn_]

Widely regarded by the boxing public as a top 50 "All Time Great".

You do realize that Hopkins record is about as impressive as a rabbit giving birth.

Who has head beat of note? The undersized Felix Trinidad who even though he lacked power at 160lb still believed he was the 147lb destroyer of old? A seriously undersized Oscar De La Hoya. How about the weight drained egomaniac who's only notable wins were against a hopelessly out of prime Roy Jones Jr, Antonio Tarver.

Bernard Hopkins has only faced 5 undefeated fighters in his career not counting the fighter with a whopping 8-0 record. He lost to two of them. Jermain Taylor and Roy Jones Jr.

Of Hopkins 20 title defenses, 5 of them were against Robbert Allen and Antwun Echols.

Hopkins defended his IBF belt for 5 years before finally attempting to unify the title. His opponent? The incredible Keith Holmes (yes that was sarcasm).

There you have Bernard Hopkins in a nutshell.

Does any of that mean he is not a hall of fame fighter? No. Hopkins is an incredible fighter, that just means resumes don't mean jack ****.

[crillz]

.....despite whatever HBO's commentary crew may lead you to believe otherwise. Joe is an average fighter, and nothing more. He possesses some natural athletic ability, and some technical boxing savy but nothing to the level of what HBO would lead you to believe.

The Positive

On the positive side he has a tremendous work rate, he's a solid counter puncher, and a natural ability to switch styles if needed. This has worked for Calzaghe throughout his career thus far, simply swarm with activity, switch styles if needed, and cruise to a victory.

The Negative

Calzaghe's negatives far outweigh his positives, in my humble opinion. He has next to no defense whatsoever, he is incapable of fighting going backwards, he will scrap with a guy just for the sake of scrapping with him, and his punches pack all the power of a roman candle.

There's nothing extraordinary about a fighter like Calzaghe. He's fought only in his home Country of Wales for his entire career. That may not be a big deal to his fans, but it is to most boxing fans. Imagine if Miguel Cotto openly claimed to be one of the best without ever having fought outside of Puerto Rico. Or if Manny Pacquiao claimed to be one of the best without ever fighting outside of the Philippines. Or if Juan Manuel Marquez achieved his status without ever fighting big names in America?

The point is, the best are always willing to fight the best in America. Say what you will about Ricky Hatton but at least he had the stones to campaign in the division outside of his own backyard. Julio Cesar Chaves would've never attained the status he has if he continued to fight what the majority of the boxing public deemed as "tin cans" in Mexico instead of coming to the U.S. to fight the big names.

It's put up or shut up time for Joe Calzaghe. I don't have any ill feelings towards the guy, I'm not that type of "fan" who makes personal judgments about why they like/dislike certain fighters. I've just grown weary of Calzaghe's talk over the years, calling out guys like Hopkins and Jones when they were mega-stars and he still hadn't even beaten anybody of note.

I'm sorry Calzaghe (and his fans) but I'm very weary of any professional fighter who has refused to fight outside of his own backyard, and has been figting nobodies for the better of 15 years. Especially now that he's looking to cement his "legacy" off the back of a past his prime ring legend who's seen better days.

(For the record, I'm still backing Hopkins to beat that bum silly.)

YOU ARE 100% RIGHT, Joe ain't nothing SPECIAL, he is MORE than that, 1 of a kind..

[shawn_]

Eubank is up there, but Kessler is not. Kessler is equal to (On Hopkins record) a Howard Eastman, or a Keith Holmes. Not equal to (On Hatton's record) a Kostya Tszyu or a Jose Luis Castillo. The list goes on and on.

I could go dig up the topics where I labelled Kessler as garbage and heavily favored Joe to school him way before the fight, but that's childish tactics.

Its late and I have had a hard day so I might be halucinating but did you just compare Mikkel Kessler to Howard Eastman? The I snuck out of my nursing home for this fight Howard Eastman? The in 48 fights I still never managed to pick up an alphabet soup title Howard Eastman? The "Hopkins hand picked me so well I have gone 2 for 6 since fighting Hopkins"?

Is that the Howard Eastman that you compared to Mikkel Kessler? The look at me I hit like a tank Mikkel Kessler? The look at me I have fast ands fluid combinations a giant heart and bazooka jab Mikkel Kessler? The I am only 28 Mikkel Kessler? The look at me I am a very smart fighter Mikkel Kessler?

Yeah, I really am tired, there is no way in hell anyone would really compare Howard Eastman to Mikkel Kessler.

[shawn_]

Pac is feasting on OAP Amigos.... and tell me who the "A class superstar fighters" B-Hop has beaten are? I'll accept Tito, but as I assume you're not talking about Morrade Hakkar or Robert Allen, I'll have to assume it's a reference to a two foot Mexican.


Let me ask you... if The Blow had boiled down to 160, do you really think he WOULDN'T have beaten The Acting Amigo?

I don't accept Tito. Tito wasn't even remotely threatening at 160lb. The guy was a wrecking machine at 147. That is all Tito ever had was his inhuman power. When he moved up to 160 and his power evaporated, he was just another bum that couldn't box.

I don't accept Oscar as a good win either. Oscar should have never moved above 147. He was in the same boat as Tito Trinidad. As soon as he stepped up to 160lb, the godlike power he had exhibited from 130-147lb had long since disappeared, and all you had left was a guy that was much smaller than Hopkins but could box a little bit, but not to Hopkins level.

Winky Wright... He made him step up to 170lb. Way way above where he should be fighting, 154.

Hopkins has made a career out of squating on the IBF belt, defending against unworthy mandatories and cherry picking undersized superstars who were up to 3 weight classes above where they should have been fighting.

Hopkins is 0-3 in in title fights against real middleweight challengers. Lost to Roy Jones and Twice to Jermain Taylor (Although in all reality it should be 1-2).

That doesn't reflect on Hopkins abilities as a fighter, it just means that he manages his career like he manages the ring, very very cautiously. Picking his fights wisely and carefully selecting his opponents.

[JJay]

to the moron who started this thread....go get yourselfapic of calzaghe 15 years ago...then one of him today..and note there is very littledifferance in his face...thats because he doesnt get hit that much....if he had as bad a defence as you say he does..his face would be like gatti's.

Your just bitchin cus you love Hopkins,n are looking to put down his next opponent,if it was pavlik,you'dhave said the same ****.

Your opinion may mean alot to you..but you dnt train fighters, you dnt fight, your not a pro, your not a boxing writer...however i have read quotes from many of those peple sy he is top 5 p4p, arum said he was second behind to PBF a few days ago...steward said he was top 3...but u..ur opinion, obviously outweighs theirs right?...oh ok...the in that case, your right,he's really ****...really poor...if only he was black,and american, and slightly racist..then he'd be amazing right?..P4P number 1? moron

oooh n as for fighting in wales...most of his pro fights have been in England which is a different country..but you wouldnt know that right?..and he has fought in germany....which as hopkins says is still europe...but hopkins has only fought on one continent himself right?..so whats he crying about?

anyways your post was ******ed,and u know it...if u want to discredit a fighter,try picking one who hasnt been rated top 3 P4P by guys working in the business at the highest level for the past 30 years...cus honestly ,and truely..your opinion next to theirs...means...well not alot :-)

[shawn_]

Kessler, only at moments in the fight, but there were occasions where pushed Joe back and connected easily. Sadly for the Schnell, that only happened a small handful of times.



I think it's a dumb thing to risk, but it's easy to risk when you're fighting the guys Calzaghe is. I doubt Joe would be doing the same thing against a guy like Dawson.



You don't need to remind me, I've always hated Lacy and hoped Joe would beat him. Granted I didn't think it would be that one-sided (who did?) but I still favored Calzaghe heavily. Probably because I was the only American who'd never heard of Lacy.



Did you pull 42% out of your ass? Hate to call you on it but it seems quite random. How does fighting twice in Germany beat coming to the U.S. to fight a guy like Jones or Hops in their prime?



I'm not saying the best fighters are American, I'm saying they fight in America. Something Calzaghe's never done.



Americans acknowledge talent, not Nationality. Miguel Cotto is a huge star in the U.S. The only huge American star in the U.S. right now would be Oscar De La Fishnets, maybe even Moby but not as big. Joe should've pursued fighting in the States years ago, even pre-Lacy. But he's never been willing to risk it.

So instead he calls up a bum in Lacy, and the conversation goes.

Joe: "Ey'a Jeff, eye wanna fight yew in me hometown of Wales."

Lacy: "Yes suh! It's a be the biggest payday of me entire career, and maybe I can finally get known! I'sa be right over dere and whip you good!"

(End of conversation)



Actions speak louder than words. There are no intervews of Calzaghe ever saying he wouldn't fight outside of Wales, because he never has said such. However, his actions show precisely that. He reminds me of the guy who talks of how unafraid he is to fight whoever, wherever, but when whoever he calls out challenges him to get on a plane, he looks down at his shoes and opts to fight his mum's mailman instead.


[QUOTEWhile his career could have been better, the likes of (old) Eubank, Robin Reid and Mitchell aren't exactly "nobodies". Every 1 in 2 of the Blow's opponents was a worthy challenger IMO.]

Math time:

After 15 seconds of counting from boxrec I determined that 17 of Calzaghe's 44 fights have taken place in Wales.

To determine the percentage we are going to divide 17 by 44

Percentage = [17] / [44] = 0.38

Now, we move the decimal over two places to the right.

0.38 --> 3.8 --> 38%

In conclusion, only 38% of Joe Calzaghe's fights have taken place in Wales.

[JJay]

Lacy was unbeaten, with a high knockout percentage, with the IBF title..thats hardly what you call a bum....its fair to say he was a bum after the fight tho

[shawn_]

44 fights, 18 in Wales. I appreciate "yo, its all da UK" to many Fat Yanks, but if he's fighting an Englishman in England, he's not likely to get the crowd on his side or judges behind him, is he?



Well, I never made that direct connection, but certainly he's got more chance of being ROBBED in Germany (cf. Reid-Ottke, et al).




But again, it gets back to who was there for him to fight? What SMWs were over in the States for him to fight? (Oh, back to your earlier Jones reference, Jones had left the division when The Blow had only had ISTR 10 pro fights).



Here's the real conversations:

Joe: "Listen, Roy, you want a fight, isn't it?"

Roy: "Pensacolainthehouse... not really, Joe, **** off. Who are you? ****!"

Joe: "Ah, **** it."

The only one anyone could really make a case for is Monson, who had signed to fights that The Blow pulled out of, citing back injuries. your beloved B-Hop reputedly asked for double the money overnight after signing to fight The Blow some years back (when he was in his prime, so this thread would have lost its validity).



I'm sure there are, but it's 2am and I need to have a wank and go to bed.



Why isn't it open to debate? Hopkins had 19 defences (wtf is with that "20" when one was a NC????) and only eight of them as any kind of unified champ. The Blow's on 22 right now, admittedly 20 of them as just one belt.

"higher profile victories"? Again, we're not talking about Howard Eastman, Carl Daniels and Morrade Hakkar here, are we? We're back to a two-foot Mexican that took a dive, am I right?

I am sorry to inform you, but you counted incorrect. The actual number is indeed 17 fights staged in Wales. 5 of which took place in his first 7 fights.

More math:

This time we are going to remove the negative effect that Joe Calzaghe's first 7 fights have on his statistics.
Here is our equation:
(17-7)/(44-7)

First we need to subtract seven fights from each side of our equation.
(10)/(37) = .27
02
Time to move that decimal.
.2702 --> 2.702 -->27.02 %

In conclusion if we properly weight Joe Calzaghes career to eleminate the home town fights of all young fighters, we come to the conclusion that Joe Calzaghe has only fought in Wales for 27.02% of his career.

Next up, Championship statistics.