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i think the survey gives up the clear answer
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*I didn't pick and choose anything but rather responded to what I felt to be your central points. "When Floyd faced them" again, most of THEM were at 130/135 pounds, so why is this relevant when Tito's career revolved around 147? He won most of his fights by knock out, so I don't see what a 147 pound KO artist knocking out a bunch of 130 pounders would prove, prime or not.
-you miss the point completely when I say that, thats to point out the caliber in opponents that Floyd has faced, Tito has fought the BEST of his time, Floyd's last 5 with the exception of Judah and Oscar have been against guys he knew he will beat, there was always a fighters chance but lets be real here fam, all the while he was facing the Judah's and the Mitchell's of the game he could have been fighting Williams, Cotto or Margarito just to shut up a few mouths.. he reigned until this point don't get me wrong but my point is Trinidad reigned too accept it was against the best of his class, opponent caliber counts for something homie Don't act like it doesn't
* Floyd faced a well conditioned and prepared Oscar who was 20 pounds heavier and won. Tito lost to a set in his prime Oscar.
- at the end of this post you claimed I wasn't logical, look above dogz who is the unlogical one here? the same way you can say that about Trinidad I can say that about Floyd against Castillo and FYI just the same way Floyd won then Trinidad won, check the record and you'll see a win, use your head here yo you trying to bypass Floyd beating a clearly different Oscar and he didn't do it by much neither, people walked away that night feeling the same way they felt when Oscar lost to Tito.. my point though is basically telling you that if he's the 147 pound champion why is he fighting 2 consecutive fighters from OTHER divisions?
*Saying Floyd lost to Castillo is not the same unless Tito also had a torn rotary cuff and won the rematch more impressively.
- see here you go again making excuses, it doesn't matter if he pulled a muscle in his ass cheek the point is the fight was lost who gives a **** about the circumstances, the rematch doesn't erase the blemish, thats like YOU telling me if Santa Cruz losses to Casamayor by KO in the rematch that the 1st robbery didn't matter and you would sound like a dumb ass, straight real..
I've already stated that if Tito's career was not tarnished by two shut out performances, I'd have no problem giving him the better resume at 40-0. This just isn't the case. He got embarrassed and knocked down a tier as Winky and Hopkins totally elevated themselves above Tito. This doesn't distract me away from his accomplishments at 147, I'm just being real and the same thing happened to RJJ. Mayweather at 130/135 is comparable enough to Tito at 147, yet Mayweather won titles at 140, 147, and 154 as well, with out losing and he beat Champions. As alluded to, he's beaten more Champions than Tito in less fights. p4p, Tito's opponents, matched up fighter for fighter is better. Just Not THAT much better, I won't be over dramatic here.
- name the champions though, Carlos Baldomir? Oscar De La Hoya? Arturo Gatti? Tito would have retired them all if that was him facing them those nights, he would have KO'ed Baldomir and broke his chin no doubt about it.. see this is why I tell you that caliber opponents matter because you can't tell me a title fight win over Carlos Baldomir is more impressive than a win over Luis Ramon Campas, this ain't compare only Floyd at 135 to Tito at 147 this is comparing resumes OVERALL and Trinidad speaks louder, you trying to set the stage to sneak in some VERY invalid points, Tito's opponents were MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Floyd's opponents, you talking **** right now..
And lost. I also think that you may be overrating some of his opponents since many were just decent contenders who have since fallen off. All weren't former champs.
- I'm talking about the 3 gold medalists whom were undefeated and in their prime champions, after facing Trinidad with the exception of De La Hoya they were never the same again, I never once said ALL were former champs I said more than half were either past or present world champions, don't twist my words up, that was the picking and choosing I was talking about you doing to my posts..
The point is that fighting people who are 30 pounds heavier than you and beating them decisively says a lot. Taking their belts says a bit as well. Tito moving up and getting hammered also says a little bit. He can't carry his skill up there basically as well as Floyd can.
- no it doesn't, because 1 De La Hoya wasn't 30 pounds heavier than Floyd when they fought, of course he took his belt but what did he do afterwards? defend it? nope he vacated it and moved down, you make it seem like he went up to face the best fighter there at 154 when he just went up against an over the hill Oscar, true he gave up all of his advantages but he still didn't face the Oscar that Trinidad faced and beat, Tito did it when Oscar was at his ABSOLUTE peak, Floyd did it 9 years later against an Oscar who was Clearly not the same and actually got winded, he COULD have went the 12 which he did but it was harder on him..
What over-the-hill guys? If I were to submit to your hyperbole you might make sense to me. "Over-the-hill is a generic term. DLH is only 4 years older than Floyd, he just got beat by the better man. 4 years doesn't separate "over-the-hill from prime" by default, there has to be a gray area. I won't fall for these kind of silly semantics.
- yea but you fall into the semantics of people who say Trinidad LOST to De La Hoya yet you give a pardon to Floyd's 1st performance against Castillo just because he beat him the rematch.. injury or not, did hurt hands stop Joshua Clottey from beating Antonio Margarito? YES, did it matter if his hands were hurt when it came time to announce a winner? NO, why should Floyd get any lee way and DON'T CITE THE REMATCH AS AN ALIBI BECAUSE THE REMATCH DIDN'T HAPPEN ON THE SAME NIGHT!.. we not comparing ages in the case of Oscar and Floyd neither so your argument there is LOST, know why? because people take age differently, if they were the SAME age thats not to say that De La Hoya's best day wasn't already behind him, Floyd is a physical beast and he's always in shape, De La Hoya went threw more wear and tear throughout his career winning a 6th title in the MW division, something you seem to glorify very much, it clearly took it's toll on Oscar yet you want to pretend that just because they are 4 years apart Oscar wasn't so bad.. age catches up to you overnight if you let it just look at Fernando Vargas, by age I mean time, Oscar's clearly caught up to him.. at that point he had 4 losses, lost a rematch, been KO'ed and clearly wasn't the same physical fighter yet you wanna **** around say just because there was a 4 year difference that **** was all good? nah yo you trippin..Comment
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Who did Trinidad fight? You keep saying that while not saying anything. What is Floyd's 5 biggest wins and what are Tito's?
Oscar
Pernell
?
?
?
^Everybody after that is B+ at best.
- what about Floyd?
Oscar De La Hoya (9 years and 2 weight classes later than Tito, B+ at that point),
Carlos Baldomir(C level who got lucky lets face it),
Arturo Gatti(C level glorified into a B level fighter even by me),
Diego Corrales(R.I.P, B level fighter, he had heart but heart don't carry you up them rankings if you constantly losing in a blaze)
Zab Judah(ONCE an A class fighter but demoted to B+ due to his own arrogance, was B+ when Floyd faced him thats for sure)
who else you want to name? don't think that because a fight was ONCE a A level fighter he always remains that way, Oscar was NOT an A level fighter when he faced Floyd dogz, if you feel that way I sincerely pity you, because that would mean you just trying to find ANY little nook and cranny to defend Floyd.. you name them and I'll throw them right back at you with the harsh reality of who they were when Floyd met them.. that is why you didn't decide to name Floyd's opponents, I dare you to do that.
Because he's actually bigger than Floyd, please don't be so foolish and ignorant, have you followed Floyd's career? He's jumping up from 130 and Hatton walks around at 180. He's 43-0 and in his prime and they missed an opp to dance at 140. You're being irrational.
- I actually own his whole fight catalog FYI, YOU being irrational, jumping up from 130 and Hatton being 180 doesn't mean too ****s ***** stop acting like it matters, they WONT have that difference in weight come fight night, Ricky is doing the same **** he was doing when he fought Collazo and Urango and everybody else it's just now he's more publicized, if anything Ricky receives more damage to his ligaments and bone by having to do SOOO much weight losing for fight dates, Ricky is a strong kid no doubt but Floyd got worthy enough opponents, he should have been facing Mosley WAY before Cotto did so and don't feed that whole Mosley turned Cotto down bull**** because Mosley ain't no coward, saying he turned down Floyd is like saying he ducked him and he didn't he had REASONABLE (unlike the way you being right now) claims as for why he couldn't fight, if anything then **** Mosley what about Cotto? he should have jumped on Cotto right after the Judah fight instead even up until today he uses a bull**** excuse to avoid Cotto, he doesn't draw big money, **** outta here, then to make it worse he doesn't face Ricky Hatton for nothing other than a quick little insult after a fight when Shane been calling his bluff for over a year now.. realize the truth son stop trying to look for ways to pad it up..
You are doing nothing but blabbering and trying your hardest to use flimsy logic to downgrade opponents as if Floyd is at a set weight and was born at 147 pounds, therefore if he fights two fights at 147, he shouldn't fight for belts at 154 or fight a former 140 pounder who is bigger than he is and undefeated. Hand picking opponents? Well, he' must be the most cunning and calculating fighter to be able to time when and where he'd go for the WBC belt in every weight class, faithfully. You sound like a conspiracy nut more than an objective observer. You overrate Tito's resume through blind assertion with out demonstrating what justifies your position as if I'm supposed to take you for granted. You aren't logical and I stand by what I said. If Tito didn't get ****d like he did at 160, similar to RJJ at LHW, then his resume wouldn't be tarnished in my eyes. But it is, so...
- blabbering? 1st off I don't blabber yo cut that **** out, 2nd it doesn't matter what you saying about Floyd fighting 2 fights here and 2 fights there because in case YOU don't follow Floyd's career he started right there where Shane and Oscar came up from, both Shane and Oscar moved up and faced the best of whoever they could face at their respective time, Shane took his tune ups but when it came down to tackle his challenge he did it BRAVELY he didn't throw excuses when he fought Vernon Forrest.. regardless of how tough or how hard Shane went at the best, even in his tune ups he went for good guys but Floyd went for Sharmba Mitchell who was REALLY not the same, then Zab Judah who in truth lost his chance to face Floyd, Floyd just did it for the money, he knew the potential this fight could raise due to their popular names, he took him over Margarito, granted.. my point though is that there was no way to calculate who was Champion at the time but look at the champion at 147 for a second, someone who could have been a tune up but because the real threat (Zab) was so ****ing ****** he not only let the Tata fight slip but he let Floyd fight slip too him HAVING the skills to win, he beats Arturo at 140 when c'mon man you should know..
then he beats Oscar De La Hoya who was clearly no longer the same, I'm not saying he did anything corrupt and that it's his fault the champions were who they were at the time but for that very same reason you can't sit here and say his resume is better when he didn't have to fight the fights Trinidad fought to receive them belts, not only was Trinidad's opponents better but he beat them in better times, when Floyd raised up to face these guys of course it wasn't his fault they were the champions, it explains it but it DOESN'T justify it, no matter how life played it's course and no matter who ended up champion the bottom line is you can't say just cuz Floyd is undefeated that his resume is better when he didn't have to face and beat the lions that Tito beat, plain and simple, the deciding factor here is opponents and Trinidad's are better, accept the truth already..
**do me a favor too yo when you reply to me don't reply piece by piece, read, understand and grasp what I'm telling you then make a post according to it, don't sit here and stretch it so long, I too make big posts, thats what I'm known for here but this is just TOO much**Comment
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Yeah but Mayweather has fought handpicked opponents after 135 lbs. Sharma Mitchell, Henry Bruceles, Arturo Gatti, Carlos Baldomir, old Oscar...sorry but Tito fought everyone on top of their game and defeated most. Not to mention they have never been the same after fighting him (the ones that lost)Comment
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You cant compare either officially since both are still fighting but if their careers ended right now i'd say Tito Trinidad fought the better opposition (ie. higher level competition overall) if you go with who has the more accomplishments (titles in several weight classes, etc.) then you have to say floyd mayweather.
being a champion in multiple weight classes is no easy task and you are bound to find a tough fight or a tough opponent somewhere in between.
Tito has fought overall more elite fighters.
so its a draw thus far...
1-1 even...
competition: tito
accomplishments: mayweatherComment
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I said Floyd but that was thinking that he beat better opposition.
Tito, by adding Hopkins and Winky, gets the nod in terms of quality of fighters faced.Comment
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