Kelly Pavlik - Have I missed something?

[MickyHatton]

By the way this is not about having a pop at Pavlik because I like him, whats there not to like? but.....

The guy is a good fighter with excellent power but nothing I have seen suggests that there is anything more, I mean he has a very upright type style, doesn't have great hand or foot speed IMO and his defence is not the greatest I have ever seen.

Therefore why all the hype? Some of posts I have read have suggested that he is now a P4P top ten fighter, why? because he beat the man who beat man (an ageing version that is). Surely there are far better proven fighters who just don't currently hold a belt?

There has to be more than that, please put me straight because I must be missing something?

[!! Mr. Soprano]

By the way this is not about having a pop at Pavlik because I like him, whats there not to like? but.....

The guy is a good fighter with excellent power but nothing I have seen suggests that there is anything more, I mean he has a very upright type style, doesn't have great hand or foot speed IMO and his defence is not the greatest I have ever seen.

Therefore why all the hype? Some of posts I have read have suggested that he is now a P4P top ten fighter, why? because he beat the man who beat man (an ageing version that is). Surely there are far better proven fighters who just don't currently hold a belt?

There has to be more than that, please put me straight because I must be missing something?

Here is the reason why he is on my P4P list

• He IS the Middleweight champion
• All but 3 fights ended by KO/TKO (last 9 in a row)
• Yes He did Beat the man, who beat the man. But not did he just beat him, he KhimTFO.
• He won his last two fights for the championship by a KO, going in as a big underdog
• Iron Chin
• One of the hardest P4P punch
• Is there anyone at middlewight that beat him?

[Kball15]

WEll Pavlik is a very complete fighter. He does everything well.

He has very good defense when he wants to, he's just gotta get more experience in so the defense comes more naturally.

But he is a very good techinical fighter, he punches as hard as anybody in the sport, He has a great jab, a lethal left hook, works the body well... has a good chin...

whats wrong with him???

He IS tall and lanky, so the chances of him getting caught are gonna be higher...

[Celtic_Warrior]

Here is the reason why he is on my P4P list

• He IS the Middleweight champion
• All but 3 fights ended by KO/TKO (last 9 in a row)
• Yes He did Beat the man, who beat the man. But not did he just beat him, he KhimTFO.
• He won his last two fights for the championship by a KO, going in as a big underdog
• Iron Chin
• One of the hardest P4P punch
• Is there anyone at middleweight that beat him?

I see your point and they would be valid in my eyes if:

He had defended his titles at least once.
He had beaten one of the other champions in the division i.e. Abraham
He had dominated the fight with Taylor, as I saw and as the judges did I believe he was losing the fight.

In essence he is a puncher who has his two biggest wins because of his power, how does that make him a P4P top ten fighter?

Surely fighters who are proven in Championship fight after Championship fight should be ahead of him, fighters like:

Mayweather
Calzaghe
Hopkins
Cotto
Mosely
Israel Vazquez
Pacquiao
Juan Diaz
Hatton
Juan Manuel Marquez
Wladimir Klitschko

Even Mikkel Kessler IMO deserves to be ahead of him simply because he was a reigning multi belt World Champion.

Thats not to say that Pavlik wont be in there but surely he hasn't done anywhere near enough yet?

[Super_Lightweight]

When you beat 'the man' that is automatically enough. Period. It's not always about technical 'skills' (who decides these anyway) and length of reign.

[C'MONMANG']

I see your point and they would be valid in my eyes if:

He had defended his titles at least once.
He had beaten one of the other champions in the division i.e. Abraham
He had dominated the fight with Taylor, as I saw and as the judges did I believe he was losing the fight.

In essence he is a puncher who has his two biggest wins because of his power, how does that make him a P4P top ten fighter?
Surely fighters who are proven in Championship fight after Championship fight should be ahead of him, fighters like:

Mayweather
Calzaghe
Hopkins
Cotto
Mosely
Israel Vazquez
Pacquiao
Juan Diaz
Hatton
Juan Manuel Marquez
Wladimir Klitschko

Even Mikkel Kessler IMO deserves to be ahead of him simply because he was a reigning multi belt World Champion.

Thats not to say that Pavlik wont be in there but surely he hasn't done anywhere near enough yet?

Partialy true. I dont think you saw those fights..

[C'MONMANG']

I see your point and they would be valid in my eyes if:

He had defended his titles at least once.
He had beaten one of the other champions in the division i.e. Abraham
He had dominated the fight with Taylor, as I saw and as the judges did I believe he was losing the fight.

In essence he is a puncher who has his two biggest wins because of his power, how does that make him a P4P top ten fighter?

Surely fighters who are proven in Championship fight after Championship fight should be ahead of him, fighters like:

Mayweather
Calzaghe
Hopkins
Cotto
Mosely
Israel Vazquez
Pacquiao
Juan Diaz
Hatton
Juan Manuel Marquez
Wladimir Klitschko

Even Mikkel Kessler IMO deserves to be ahead of him simply because he was a reigning multi belt World Champion.
Thats not to say that Pavlik wont be in there but surely he hasn't done anywhere near enough yet?

...ummmmm what?

[Mozza]

WEll Pavlik is a very complete fighter. He does everything well.

He has very good defense when he wants to, he's just gotta get more experience in so the defense comes more naturally.

But he is a very good techinical fighter, he punches as hard as anybody in the sport, He has a great jab, a lethal left hook, works the body well... has a good chin...

whats wrong with him???

He IS tall and lanky, so the chances of him getting caught are gonna be higher...

I was less than impressed by his defence against Taylor. This rematch with Taylor is the acid test, winning the title is hard but defending it is even harder.

[Mozza]

...ummmmm what?

Kessler deserves to be ahead of Pavlik.

[THe TRiNiTY]

I don't think he's top 10, yet. But, that's mainly because I don't think you can sneak in with fighting simple fighters,a nd then two big fights. Take s a bit more than that. Plus, he's an ordinary fighter. He has TREMENDOUS power. But otherwise.. he has no head movement, avergae hand and foot speed, and his stance is pretty straight up.

As far as the iron chin statement? With what proof? He took shots from Miranda that ATLEAST stunned him, and Miranda wasn't punching as hard as he normally does in that fight. Regardless of that, he was purt pretty well in the Taylor fight. Is it a problem? No. He got up and won the fight, putting Taylor down, to STAY. Good, but he still got rocked then dropped, then stumbled around the ring for the remainder of the round.

He's also a bit clumbsy on the inside, trips over an opponent coming in, when he tries to counter. Gets hit too much and has a defense that needs work.

I'm not trying to dog him, he's got power, hunger, fights well when he gets that long powerful jab going, can take a solid punch, fights well off the ropes, and uses his hieght to his advantage. I'm just saying.. he needs more than just to impressive performances and a nice KO ratio. People need to realize that p4p means that even if you put him in at number 10, that means you think that only 9 other boxers have better skills than he does. I SERIOUSLY don't see that as being the case. No offense, to Pavlik.