If Juan ends up beating PAC, it's because he's bigger not better

[We want Floyd]

I'm not really sure I understand the logic behind what you said. My intentions are not to discredit you, or be offensive, but your post left me scratching my head. You clearly state that Pacquiao has a bigger punch than Baby Bull, is faster than Diaz, and has more stamina; but that if Juan Diaz beats Manny Pacquiao it's solely due to his size.

Size is only a factor, generally speaking, when you factor in power. You're saying that Manny would punch harder, faster, and be able to outlast Juan. So every feasable advantage that a larger man would have you are dismissing. If Diaz is slower, with less power and lacks the stamina of Pacquiao- as you said- then beating him would mean he's overcoming nearly insurmountable odds. Frankly, after the way you sized up the two men if Diaz was to beat him it would mean exactly what you're saying it doesn't: that Baby Bull is a better fighter. How else could you explain beating a supposedly faster, stronger, man with more stamina? Obviously not by using Juan's size.....

No, no, no. Read it over, slowly this time.

What I was trying to get across is...

If PAC and Twan go head to head - Diaz would have the advantage due mainly to his size, add to that his workrate against a guy who started at 106lbs. it may end up to be overwhelming, or maybe PAC's athletic ability will be enough and hold up and be able to negate Twan's aggression.

But, if you look at it from a P4P perspective - Yes, you'd definitely have to give the power and speed to PAC. Stamina wise, I'd have to give it to PAC because we've seen 'em in tight, grueling fights like he had in the first EM and JMM.

But, if both PAC and Twan were both natural 135lbers. and you make a head to head comparison with all the stuff PAC brings to the table and Twan's. I'd have to go w/ PAC.

The thing about PAC is that, he has been battle tested, he has had the tough fights, he has had to defend and go on the offensive, which you and I would think takes alot more energy than what Twan has had to do, which is basically face punching bags and not worry much about defense. Are you following me.

Now, having said all that, I don't doubt for one-minute that if Twan were to be put in a situation where he is involved in a back and forth fight , I think his stamina would still be good, because punching at the rate Twan does is amazing in of itself, it takes alot of energy to do what he does. But, it still a question mark up this point because he hasn't faced anyone that would take him in deep waters. Twan's like a bus these days going downhill, pedal to the metal. But what happens if there's a roadblock that's not likely to budge?? How will he react, how will Twan react if he has to try and figure out someone like JMM, a counter-puncher, mover extraordinaire.

[Njord777]

No, no, no. Read it over, slowly this time.

What I was trying to get across is...

If PAC and Twan go head to head - Diaz would have the advantage due mainly to his size, add to that his workrate against a guy who started at 106lbs. it may end up to be overwhelming, or maybe PAC's athletic ability will be enough and hold up and be able to negate Twan's aggression.

But, if you look at it from a P4P perspective - Yes, you'd definitely have to give the power and speed to PAC. Stamina wise, I'd have to give it to PAC because we've seen 'em in tight, grueling fights like he had in the first EM and JMM.

But, if both PAC and Twan were both natural 135lbers. and you make a head to head comparison with all the stuff PAC brings to the table and Twan's. I'd have to go w/ PAC.

The thing about PAC is that, he has been battle tested, he has had the tough fights, he has had to defend and go on the offensive, which you and I would think takes alot more energy than what Twan has had to do, which is basically face punching bags and not worry much about defense. Are you following me.

Now, having said all that, I don't doubt for one-minute that if Twan were to be put in a situation where he is involved in a back and forth fight , I think his stamina would still be good, because punching at the rate Twan does is amazing in of itself, it takes alot of energy to do what he does. But, it still a question mark up this point because he hasn't faced anyone that would take him in deep waters. Twan's like a bus these days going downhill, pedal to the metal. But what happens if there's a roadblock that's not likely to budge?? How will he react, how will Twan react if he has to try and figure out someone like JMM, a counter-puncher, mover extraordinaire.

Perhaps you should read my post again; also slowly. Please explain to us (and I don't mean to condescend) how does Juan's size give him the overwhelming advantage you speak of? Size is only an issue when it comes to punching power- and perhaps how much damage a fighter can take. You're saying if Juan wins it's because of his size...how? What about his size if not his power and chin- because Manny clearly has a bigger punch to throw that theory to shreds.

Also, Pacquiao has been coming into fights at 144 - around the same weight Juan blows up to. Anyone here can explain to you what that means; Manny could move up in weight but has chosen not to in order to attempt and dominate the division. I don't agree with your argument about Juan's size.

[We want Floyd]

Perhaps you should read my post again; also slowly. Please explain to us (and I don't mean to condescend) how does Juan's size give him the overwhelming advantage you speak of? Size is only an issue when it comes to punching power- and perhaps how much damage a fighter can take. You're saying if Juan wins it's because of his size...how? What about his size if not his power and chin- because Manny clearly has a bigger punch to throw that theory to shreds.

Also, Pacquiao has been coming into fights at 144 - around the same weight Juan blows up to. Anyone here can explain to you what that means; Manny could move up in weight but has chosen not to in order to attempt and dominate the division. I don't agree with your argument about Juan's size.

Yes, you're right. On paper, we all see the numbers. it says PAC came in at 144 and twan came in at 144, on paper. But PAC only started coming in at 144 when he fought EM the 3rd time or was it against Solis. if PAC and Twan were to tussle right this minute w/o PAC having tested the waters at 135lbs. w/ the kinda workrate twan brings, I would have some concerns for PAC.

Eventhough they're pretty much even in height. Twan is a thick, natural 135lber. PAC is an undersized 135lber, hell, he even looks small for the 130lb division if you compare him to natural 130lbers. I mean, PAC was already labeled a blown up featherweight, what more at 135lbs !

The thing about it is, when the fight gets to the middle to late rounds. Twan's size w/ his punchrate will start to be an issue. Unless, PAC is able to bring his speed and a respectable pop and won't have stamina issues with the added weight against a big 135lber, then PAC i think has a legit shot at victory

Lets put it this way, if Shawne Merriman were a fighter and he punched 1,000 per round and you have a blown up Ladainian Tomlinson punching a 1,000 per round. I think I'd rather have LT coming at me. Now, of course this is an exaggerated/maybe not the best analogy. but, you get the picture?

[SkillspayBills]

Excuses before the fight has even been signed,impressive. Once you get in the ring NO EXCUSES. Juan isn't overwhelmingly bigger than Pac, he won't even outweigh him come fight night.

[Undefeated]

Just reading the title is just ******.

Doesn't even deserve a response.

[Njord777]

Yes, you're right. On paper, we all see the numbers. it says PAC came in at 144 and twan came in at 144, on paper. But PAC only started coming in at 144 when he fought EM the 3rd time or was it against Solis. if PAC and Twan were to tussle right this minute w/o PAC having tested the waters at 135lbs. w/ the kinda workrate twan brings, I would have some concerns for PAC.

Eventhough they're pretty much even in height. Twan is a thick, natural 135lber. PAC is an undersized 135lber, hell, he even looks small for the 130lb division if you compare him to natural 130lbers. I mean, PAC was already labeled a blown up featherweight, what more at 135lbs !

The thing about it is, when the fight gets to the middle to late rounds. Twan's size w/ his punchrate will start to be an issue. Unless, PAC is able to bring his speed and a respectable pop and won't have stamina issues with the added weight against a big 135lber, then PAC i think has a legit shot at victory

Lets put it this way, if Shawne Merriman were a fighter and he punched 1,000 per round and you have a blown up Ladainian Tomlinson punching a 1,000 per round. I think I'd rather have LT coming at me. Now, of course this is an exaggerated/maybe not the best analogy. but, you get the picture?

But punching power is what size suggests. If you mean to say you'd rather face LT due to him being a smaller man than Merriman - well, what if it was proven that, naturally, Tomlinson had a bigger punch? Then, unless you're sick, you'd rather face the guy who punches won't do as much damage; in other words- Diaz. If Juan wins it has nothing to do with his size as he does not punch as hard. It would have to do with him being able to land his punches, make Pac miss, and overall outwork Manny.

[We want Floyd]

Excuses before the fight has even been signed,impressive. Once you get in the ring NO EXCUSES. Juan isn't overwhelmingly bigger than Pac, he won't even outweigh him come fight night.

Hey, I never said PAC doesn't have a chance against twan. And again it's not even about being outweighed, its about a guy who is really a blown-up 126lber against a guy who has fought mostly at 135lbs.

What about Twan moving up against Hatton right now. How do you think that'll end up? I'll put it to you this way. PAC has a better chance at beating Twan at 135lbs. than Twan beating Hatton or Cotto at 140-147lbs.

[We want Floyd]

But punching power is what size suggests. If you mean to say you'd rather face LT due to him being a smaller man than Merriman - well, what if it was proven that, naturally, Tomlinson had a bigger punch? Then, unless you're sick, you'd rather face the guy who punches won't do as much damage; in other words- Diaz. If Juan wins it has nothing to do with his size as he does not punch as hard. It would have to do with him being able to land his punches, make Pac miss, and overall outwork Manny.

What if Tomlinson had a bigger punch, you ask. P4P or head to head?

hypothetically speaking, lets just say that PAC does hit harder than Twan, even at 135lbs. But theoretically, you'd think that the natural 135lber, which is twan, would be able to absorb the punches better at 135lbs compared to if he were connecting against a guy who is a blown up 126lber. You can't honestly say that Pac at 144lbs has the same muscle mass, bone density compared to Twan who is naturally bigger.

Let me make this clear, even though I think PAC would have to be the underdog against twan. pac, i think, has an inside shot at beating twan. for as long as pac brings his speed, stamina, and is able to handle the size against a natural 135lber. pac has a shot, a good one.

[We want Floyd]

sometimes it's not so much who punches harder, but who is able to absorb it, endure it and come up w/ their own attack that wins it. IE, we all knew that tyson hit a helluva lot harder than holyfield, but holyfield took it, smiled and came back 10 times more aggressive. tyson on the other hand, simply got discouraged and ended up gettin gutted.

in theory, you would think that twan would be the one to absorb the punches better , because of his larger bone structure compared to pac's lithe physique.

[.::|ULTIMATE|::.]

Juan is doing great at 135 but he is certainly not a natural 135 lber he should be at 130.