The Ugly Truth About Arturo Gatti's Career (??)

[Phantasm]

Is there anyone who didn't know that Leija was done/smoke/toast? Seriously.
Was he 38?

I'll go look.

Checked. Yeah. He was a former SFW going on 39 y.o. With 50+ fights. JJL was on vapors.

Once again, Dios youre contradicting yourself. You talk about Leija's win over Bojado, but Gatti beats him and he's old.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

I agree..I respect Leija immensley as well. And of those guys you mentioned, who did he beat? An aged Azumah Nelson and Panchito Bojado, who seems to have been more hype than ability.
And to say that Gatti had no heart because he didnt face more guys that would have ko'ed him is ridiculous. .

I never said Gatti didn't have heart...did I?

But you can't say "Gatti was smart to stay away from guys who can KO him", and criticize another fighter as "a ducker" for doing the same.

And if Gatti was belt-chasing (which he was) then he kinda had an obligation to fight the best. Otherwise, you are kinda wearing the mantle of "champion" fraudulently.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Once again, Dios youre contradicting yourself. You talk about Leija's win over Bojado, but Gatti beats him and he's old.

No... I talked about Leija's overall quality of opposition. I said that I respected JJL for fighting all those guys I listed. Knowing/expecting that he would collect L's along the way.

Did we expect JJL to beat Bojado and to hang a stain on Machito's record?

In YOUR opinion, was JJL old when Gatti beat him?

[Phantasm]

I didn't complain that he wasn't an elite fighter. For the most part, fighters are who they are. You can't complain about that.

But at the same time, you can't say that "dude has crazy heart" when he was unwilling to test himself against even the "very good". That is inconsistent.

I know that he can't beat "the best". We saw that with ODLH and PBF. Clearly. But how about fighting a notch below that?

For example, I have alot of respect for JJ Leija who fought Lazcano, Azumah, Shane, machito (?), Tszyu, and Bojado in addition to ODLH and Gatti.

I never said Gatti didn't have heart...did I?

But you can't say "Gatti was smart to stay away from guys who can KO him", and criticize another fighter as "a ducker" for doing the same.

And if Gatti was belt-chasing (which he was) then he kinda had an obligation to fight the best. Otherwise, you are kinda wearing the mantle of "champion" fraudulently.

Actually, yes you did.

I've never called anyone a 'ducker'. As I said, you cant fault a guy for facing an opponent that he has a chance of beating. I'm sure you wouldnt step up against a guy you know you have no shot of beating but has a good shot of rearranging your face. Just as you wouldnt say that if you fought a guy who you had a chance of beating, but was getting the best of you, splitting your eyes and lips open, pounding your liver and ribs, yet you continued to not give up, that you don't have heart.

And if you want to say that a fighter is holding the mantle of 'champion' farudulently, then you can say that about nearly ALL the champions today. Why hasnt Floyd fought ALL of the top guys at 147? Why hasnt Taylor or Calzaghe fought all the guys at 160-168? We can go on and on thru every division. It is rarer to find a fighter who has faced them all (Morales, Barrera, Pacquiao) than to name those that havent.

[Phantasm]

No... I talked about Leija's overall quality of opposition. I said that I respected JJL for fighting all those guys I listed. Knowing/expecting that he would collect L's along the way.

Did we expect JJL to beat Bojado and to hang a stain on Machito's record?

In YOUR opinion, was JJL old when Gatti beat him?

Yes, he was.

And it's Panchito.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

And Gatti faced many hispanic fighters; to say that the division was headed by latino and african american fighters and Gatti ducked them during his career is unfounded.

Casamayor, Corrales, Corley, Vivian, NDou, Raheem, Forbes, Campbell, Witter, Mosley, Judah AND Cotto, Tszyu, Freitas, etc, etc?

IMO, the group above represents the lion's share of the upper echelon at LW and JWW over the past decade. Do you disagree? Is that group not predominantly B/H? It is what it is.

Hatton, post-Tszyu, is hands-down the 140 champion.

[Phantasm]

Casamayor, Corrales, Corley, Vivian, NDou, Raheem, Forbes, Campbell, Witter, Mosley, Judah AND Cotto, Tszyu, Freitas, etc, etc?

IMO, the group above represents the lion's share of the upper echelon at LW and JWW over the past decade. Do you disagree? Is that group not predominantly B/H? It is what it is.

Hatton, post-Tszyu, is hands-down the 140 champion.

And not taking anything away from Hatton, how many of those has he faced? Other than the old versions of Tszyu and Castillo?

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

Yes, he was.

And it's Panchito.

Nah,

By Machito, I was referring to Hector Camacho, Jr. He fought (and punked out of) a fight with JJL. At the Brooklyn Cyclones stadium. That began the downward spiral for Hector Junior (Machito).

Being a NYC boy growing up, I was a fan of Camacho... even though he's Puerto Rican.

[Phantasm]

No... I talked about Leija's overall quality of opposition. I said that I respected JJL for fighting all those guys I listed. Knowing/expecting that he would collect L's along the way.

Did we expect JJL to beat Bojado and to hang a stain on Machito's record?

In YOUR opinion, was JJL old when Gatti beat him?

Perhaps this is the reason why Leija's popularity never reached the level of Gatti's outside of TX.

[ianwigley]

And not taking anything away from Hatton, how many of those has he faced? Other than the old versions of Tszyu and Castillo?

I agree with you totally, other than I would take loads away from Hatton. He's a man trading on past glories, namely an old Kosta. Outside that he ain't done ****.