Whos better Leonard or Duran

[squealpiggy]

Actually almost every all time great loses to a bum at some point. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick (who was a champion, but not a good one... he won it in the era where everyone ****ing ****** in the division except for Tyson and Holmes, and he didn't beat either of them, he won a belt from Pinklon Thomas [who?]). JCC lost to Willy Wise. Sugar Ray Robinson lost to a guy named Memo Ayon who was 12-4... everyone has bad days. A few losses (especially from a guy who fought until he was 50) shouldn't take away ATG status.

You know you hit the nail right on the head. I wonder when it happened that a single loss makes someone's entire record worthless? It never used to be that way, but nowadays there are too many people willing a fighter to be "exposed" (even if they lose to top level opposition they are still considered to be exposed and thereafter damaged goods). It's extremely disrespectful to the fighters involved. Keyboard warriors.

[Easy-E]

Duran is overrated imo.
He lost to the best fighters of his era (Hagler twice, Hearns by KTFO and was outclassed and embarassed by Leonard.)

[Easy-E]

Actually almost every all time great loses to a bum at some point. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick (who was a champion, but not a good one... he won it in the era where everyone ****ing ****** in the division except for Tyson and Holmes, and he didn't beat either of them, he won a belt from Pinklon Thomas [who?]). JCC lost to Willy Wise. Sugar Ray Robinson lost to a guy named Memo Ayon who was 12-4... everyone has bad days. A few losses (especially from a guy who fought until he was 50) shouldn't take away ATG status.

No, all time great fighters shouldnt lose to bums.
Losing to poor fighters greatly detracts from their legacy.

[The Troll]

Duran is overrated imo.
He lost to the best fighters of his era (Hagler twice, Hearns by KTFO and was outclassed and embarassed by Leonard.)

That wasn't his era. He fought Hagler hard, only came up short by a few points was the first one to go 15 rounds with Hagler during his title reign and that was way past his prime as was his fight with Hearns, and when it counted he beat Leonard to the bone, he had him hurt bad, Leonard even admits his fight with Duran was his hardest. That was also his first fight from lightweight at 147 and he took down Leonard.

[Fox McCloud]

No, all time great fighters shouldnt lose to bums.
Losing to poor fighters greatly detracts from their legacy.

You are right... Mike Tyson's name should be struck from boxing history because of his loss to Buster Douglas. Muhammad Ali is no longer even recognized as a boxer now that he lost to Trevor Berbick. Like I said, if it happens once or twice over a very long career, it shouldn't be a huge deal. If it happens frequently, then there is a problem, but it is this type of thinking that causes great fights to go forever unmade, because your mentality makes boxers afraid to take risks, because they could result in losses.

[wmute]

You are right... Mike Tyson's name should be struck from boxing history because of his loss to Buster Douglas. Muhammad Ali is no longer even recognized as a boxer now that he lost to Trevor Berbick. Like I said, if it happens once or twice over a very long career, it shouldn't be a huge deal. If it happens frequently, then there is a problem, but it is this type of thinking that causes great fights to go forever unmade, because your mentality makes boxers afraid to take risks, because they could result in losses.

you are so right. best post ever.

[Fox McCloud]

you are so right. best post ever.

I mean, I do what I do.

[wmute]

I mean, I do what I do.

Yeah, but so many ppl fail to realize this...

The current average boxing fans and the incentives provided by HBO are ruining boxing.

Once you get a loss, you are a bum. The same ppl are then surprised if a fighter doesnt immediately go looking for the most dangerous fight he can get.

[Hydro]

No, all time great fighters shouldnt lose to bums.
Losing to poor fighters greatly detracts from their legacy.

Let's look at some of the all-time greats who lost to "bums" at some point in their careers.


Henry Armstrong lost to:

Chester Slider who had a listed record of 32-17 at the time and retired with a 43-41 record. Armstrong also lost his pro debut to Al Iovino.

Alexis Arguello lost to:

Journeyman Scott "Pink" Walker late in his career. Alexis also lost early in his career to a guy named Jorge Reyes, who has a listed career record of 4-8, and a couple of other guys in his first few career fights named Miguel Espinoza and Cachorro Amaya.

Willie Pep lost to:

Calvin Woodland, Tommy Tibbs (who had a career record of .500 at the time).

Tony Canzoneri lost to:

Eddie Brink, who had a .500 record at the time and finished his career with more losses than wins. Canzoneri also lost to Eddie Zivic (not bad if you change the first name) and journeyman Eddie Abad, among others.

Harry Greb early in his career lost to Mike Milko, Hooks Evans, and Whitey Wenzel.

Sam Langford lost to guys like Battling Gahee, Clem Johnson, Jack Thompson, Willie Meehan (although Meehan did manage to win a fixed fight over Jack Dempsey), and Larry Temple.

Muhammad Ali lost to Leon Spinks. Okay, the Toothless Wonder wasn't a bum, but he had SEVEN PRO FIGHTS when he beat Ali.

Mickey Walker lost to journeymen like John Andersson and Paul Pirrone.

Sugar Ray Robinson lost to Memo Ayon, Tiger Jones, and drew twice with Fabio Bettini.

A great fighter having poor performances and losses to lesser guys, especially late in his career, is nothing new or unique.

Arguably the two greatest fighters of all-time in Armstrong and Robinson, and the greatest HW of all-time in Ali, have bad losses such as these.

It doesn't take away from all their great wins.

[Verstyle]

I like leonard more,he had that breath taking speed and power.He still stood even with disadvantages.