Roy Jones vs. Mikkel Kessler in November?

[langshof]

Easy. It's just about the biggest fight you can make in boxing right now. Therefore the fight is worth more than 3$ million.
Kessler might not make as much fighing anyone else, but the difference between Kessler and Calzaghe is that Kessler can wait for his big payday, Calzaghe can't wait for his career defining fight. He needs it NOW, so why beat around the bush, making offers they know will be refused? You yourself claim the fight will be worth much more, why not give Kessler the 5$ million net, that you say he'll get anyway?

You're right, Kessler probably won't get Taylor, Hopkins or Wright next, but again, he can wait for those fights, Calzaghe can't, and evidently HE can't get those fights either. HE can't even get RJJ, which it seems Kessler can. I think we can agree that an RJJ fight is a MUCH better way to introduce yourself to the American public, than fighting Manfredo? If Kessler beats RJJ in convincing fashion, the pressure on Calzaghe to fight him will be even greater. Doesn't it make sense for Kessler to take that fight then? To get better leverage in negotiations? I think so. Taking the fight now for 3$ million would be ******, when the fight is worth so much more than that.

Regarding whether Calzaghe is the bigger name fighter... Namewise, not by much (except in England perhaps), and I think he's definitely got the bigger legitimacy issues. It's perfectly okay for Kessler not to be proven, he's the young gun. Calzaghe is infamous for NOT fighting the right opponents, and lowbidding everybody (Taylor, Kessler, RJJ by my count) will just tarnish his legacy, when he retires having beaten an old Eubank and an untested overrated Lacy as his only accomplishments.

Make the 5$ million offer, it's obviously economically feasible, and we'll see the fight that makes the most sense (Taylor needs to get back to winning convincingly in his own division before stepping up, IMO).

Greatest post I've read in the JC/Kess threads so far!

[squealpiggy]

Calzaghe is the best fight that can be made for Kessler at the moment (in terms of career and money). Kessler is probably about the third best fight for Calzaghe (after Taylor and Hopkins).

[Peder]

i dont hate him lol but he isnt worth what they think he is, and hes way overated. he strugled with mundine who is the best fighter hes fought but is only decent.

i keep sayin a unbeaten 2 belt robot does not mean anything. to me it appears that everyone has gotten hyped up after seeing his performance against andrade. this guy could not even punch straight. andrade was jus tough, he had absolutely no boxing skills at all. of course kessler is going to beat the **** out him in impressive fassion.

joe beating woodhall, reid, and even eubank was still a very good fighter, all of these guys at the time were more impressive wins than andrade and beyer. yeah calzaghe's oposition hasnt been great but he still has the better wins.

sure.. over 10 years, and 20 defenses. And you name 3 guys?

It’s a matter of opinion.
IMO Eubank wasn't prime, and neither was Reid.
Woodhall - wasn't he knocked down 3 times by Beyer, before he got retired by Joe?
The only real fight that made Calzaghe, is Lacy. And he was inexperienced and stood like a rabbit caught in the headlights the entire fight.

Kessler hasn't just won his fights; he has dominated every opponent like he did Andrade.

The undisputed factor counts.

[crold1]

Kessler was not offered three million. Check back in the BScene archives; I wrote about this and have copies of the offer sheets. In fact, I'll repost that piece of that article:

Calzaghe-Kessler Watch

During the interview portion of the telecast last Saturday on HBO, following World Super Middleweight Champion Joe Calzaghe’s (43-0, 32 KOs) appearance against Contender runner-up Peter Manfredo (26-4, 12 KOs), victorious promoter Frank Warren hinted at an offer made to Calzaghe’s only real challenger Mikkel Kessler (39-0, 29 KOs). Announcer Larry Merchant may have cut him off on the live feed, but Warren’s message was expressed throughout the global press by Sunday morning.

At BoxingScene, correspondent Fred Sternburg quoted Warren as stating that “"Per Joe's desire to unify the belts, I had already offered Mikkel Kessler a multi-million dollar purse, including his keeping the German and Danish TV rights, for a summer title unification fight…However, Kessler's promoter countered with a demand for parity and a 50/50 split on everything.” The ‘multi-millions’ offered were reported by some, including ESPN, at approximately $3 million and Warren was also widely quoted as stating that Team Kessler would not be available for an intended July date.

I got hold of the signed offer from Warren as well as the signed response from Kessler promoter Mogens Palle. Dated March 27, 2007, Warren’s written offer to Palle was for $1.75 million dollars and the Scandinavian TV rights for a bout to be fought on July 7 or 14 of this year. Warren also wrote to Palle that “You stated that you would also require German TV. I have an existing broadcast contract with German TV. I will have to discuss the situation with them and will come back to you in due course.” Not exactly the offer Warren claimed to have made.

Palle’s written response to Warren, dated April 4, 2007, did though state that Kessler would not be available to fight in July and confirmed Warren’s charge that Palle was asking for economic parity. The document reads “such a fight could be held in Denmark, in the United Kingdom or in a neutral country such as the United States. Mikkel Kessler is willing to fight in any location, provided that there is complete parity regarding the purses and all other revenue. In other words, Kessler must get exactly the same compensation as does Calzaghe. Also any such promotion must be a co-promotion.”

I contacted Palle personally on Monday evening. Palle was in the United States, joined over the weekend by Kessler, to meet with HBO and allow for a Kessler appearance on ESPN Friday Night Fights. Palle stated that it had “been a very successful trip” and that HBO “was very excited about Kessler.” As to a July date, Palle stated that HBO has no plans to make a July bout and that Warren’s offer was “hot air.”

Further expanding on why July would not viable for Kessler regardless, Palle compared the Andrade fight, which he called “a tough twelve round fight against a real world contender,” to Calzaghe’s challenge from Manfredo. Palle stated that Calzaghe-Manfredo “was a mismatch against a cartoon fighter. Being in that reality show means nothing…that was all mediocre fighters. Not world class material that deserves to fight for a world title.” He stated that after the Andrade fight, Kessler would need more time to have proper training and wondered how many times Calzaghe has come back from one tough fight to another in only three months, stating that he often fights “with six, seven month intervals.” Digging in further to his rival promoter and the disappointing affair that was Calzaghe-Manfredo, Palle would offer that Warren should feel ashamed for having “cheated 35,000 fans” by offering them the fight he did.

While I personally hold the all of the sanctioning body belts in low regard, there is no doubt that they factor heavily into negotiations. Palle was quick to point out that Calzaghe’s WBO belt is only one versus Kessler two “most prestigious” title belts from the WBC and WBA. Palle gave little regard to Ring Magazine titles (Calzaghe is recognized by Ring as well) arguing that just “because two guys from Ring give out belts” does not make their titlists the true champion.

Palle pointed out that he offered $1.75 million pounds ($3.43 million dollars) along with British TV rights in the fall of 2006 for a March 2007 bout with Kessler in Denmark. An independently attained document dated November 7, 2006 verified this offer along with exhibiting a consistency from Palle as to acceptable terms for a bout in the UK (“the right amount of money plus exclusive Nordic country and German TV, radio and internet rights.”) Palle stated to me that Warren is “manipulating…he never replies accept through the press.” In conclusion on the issue of a Calzaghe-Kessler bout, Palle stated that, given the current state of negotiations, “I have no belief that the fight will happen at all.”

That leaves open the possibility of other opponents for Kessler. “He would like to fight (Ring Light Heavyweight king) Bernard Hopkins. Frank Warren is saying there is no reason for Calzaghe to go to the United States to fight” given the crowds Calzaghe draws. Palle stated that Kessler would be willing to come to the United States to fight Hopkins or World middleweight champion Jermain Taylor. There is reason to be optimistic that such events could take place.

Following my conversation with Palle, I spoke with another unnamed source who illuminated what had gone on in meetings with HBO. HBO allegedly views the top of this weight range as a ‘group of five’ consisting on Kessler, Calzaghe, Taylor, Hopkins and Winky Wright and if Calzaghe is not available HBO is willing to work towards any of the other big names versus “The Viking Warrior.”

This source further stated that Palle is scheduled, before returning to Denmark, for sit-downs with Taylor promoter Lou DiBella as well as Hopkins Golden Boy Promotions partner Richard Schaeffer. Considering the offer Warren made for Taylor to travel to the UK this July (Warren’s 1.6 million pound ($3.1 million) initial offer has reportedly been upped to approximately $4 million), Kessler might be in position to be the realistic European force against the biggest American names in a stateside ring.

So what’s my personal take on Calzaghe-Kessler? It’s too big not to happen eventually as long as both keep winning. The numbers Palle offered last year indicate that there is much more money in the pot already than Warren’s alarmingly low current offer approaches. It does though strike odd that the 28-year old fighter is being claimed to need more recovery time than the 35-year old. No one is asking for a return to the days when Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake Lamotta fought twice in the same month but, barring an undisclosed injury from that Andrade fight, four months should be plenty of time for a fight.

That said, this is not Roy Jones-Dariusz Michalczewski, where one fighter was a name without a face outside his home market. I remember a moment in the Legendary Nights retrospective on Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns. Angelo Dundee said that he could sense when a promotion was going to get really big and that rather than go straight from Roberto Duran to Hearns, he thought it would be better economics to let the business of Leonard-Hearns build the fight in the ring. It worked like a charm. As long as the parties in question don’t lose, it’s always worked in boxing.

The wait may seem interminable for those, like me, who have followed Kessler for much of the last few years and thought he was the most deserving contender in the division before the bout between Calzaghe and Jeff Lacy. That ignores the fact that the fight just got hot to most boxing followers. Maybe this fight does go the way of Jones-Michalczewski (or Salvador Sanchez-Eusebio Pedroza or Carlos Palomino-Pipino Cuevas). But maybe it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, we could all be looking at only the beginning of one of the biggest multi-national promotions in history.

[robjr]

Not enough Jones respect on here.. These guys will NEVER match up to what he has acheiveed or his dominance..

[.Mik.]

And that is why ending up fighting RJJ isn't that silly..
Kessler would probably gain more exposure from fighting Roy in Las Vegas, than fighting Joe in the UK.
If you left Joe out of it, I actually find it hard to come up with a better available choice of opponent. Kessler fought the best avalible at his title defenses, I'm fine with him putting on a show to impress the us audience.

It's Calzaghe who's under pressure, if he wants to make big fights before he stops - Right?

I do hope that you werent one of the people criticising Calzaghe when it looked like he was going to fight RJJ. Or when he did fight Manfredo.

Kessler was not offered three million. Check back in the BScene archives; I wrote about this and have copies of the offer sheets. In fact, I'll repost that piece of that article:

Calzaghe-Kessler Watch

During the interview portion of the telecast last Saturday on HBO, following World Super Middleweight Champion Joe Calzaghe’s (43-0, 32 KOs) appearance against Contender runner-up Peter Manfredo (26-4, 12 KOs), victorious promoter Frank Warren hinted at an offer made to Calzaghe’s only real challenger Mikkel Kessler (39-0, 29 KOs). Announcer Larry Merchant may have cut him off on the live feed, but Warren’s message was expressed throughout the global press by Sunday morning.

At BoxingScene, correspondent Fred Sternburg quoted Warren as stating that “"Per Joe's desire to unify the belts, I had already offered Mikkel Kessler a multi-million dollar purse, including his keeping the German and Danish TV rights, for a summer title unification fight…However, Kessler's promoter countered with a demand for parity and a 50/50 split on everything.” The ‘multi-millions’ offered were reported by some, including ESPN, at approximately $3 million and Warren was also widely quoted as stating that Team Kessler would not be available for an intended July date.

I got hold of the signed offer from Warren as well as the signed response from Kessler promoter Mogens Palle. Dated March 27, 2007, Warren’s written offer to Palle was for $1.75 million dollars and the Scandinavian TV rights for a bout to be fought on July 7 or 14 of this year. Warren also wrote to Palle that “You stated that you would also require German TV. I have an existing broadcast contract with German TV. I will have to discuss the situation with them and will come back to you in due course.” Not exactly the offer Warren claimed to have made.

Palle’s written response to Warren, dated April 4, 2007, did though state that Kessler would not be available to fight in July and confirmed Warren’s charge that Palle was asking for economic parity. The document reads “such a fight could be held in Denmark, in the United Kingdom or in a neutral country such as the United States. Mikkel Kessler is willing to fight in any location, provided that there is complete parity regarding the purses and all other revenue. In other words, Kessler must get exactly the same compensation as does Calzaghe. Also any such promotion must be a co-promotion.”

I contacted Palle personally on Monday evening. Palle was in the United States, joined over the weekend by Kessler, to meet with HBO and allow for a Kessler appearance on ESPN Friday Night Fights. Palle stated that it had “been a very successful trip” and that HBO “was very excited about Kessler.” As to a July date, Palle stated that HBO has no plans to make a July bout and that Warren’s offer was “hot air.”

Further expanding on why July would not viable for Kessler regardless, Palle compared the Andrade fight, which he called “a tough twelve round fight against a real world contender,” to Calzaghe’s challenge from Manfredo. Palle stated that Calzaghe-Manfredo “was a mismatch against a cartoon fighter. Being in that reality show means nothing…that was all mediocre fighters. Not world class material that deserves to fight for a world title.” He stated that after the Andrade fight, Kessler would need more time to have proper training and wondered how many times Calzaghe has come back from one tough fight to another in only three months, stating that he often fights “with six, seven month intervals.” Digging in further to his rival promoter and the disappointing affair that was Calzaghe-Manfredo, Palle would offer that Warren should feel ashamed for having “cheated 35,000 fans” by offering them the fight he did.

While I personally hold the all of the sanctioning body belts in low regard, there is no doubt that they factor heavily into negotiations. Palle was quick to point out that Calzaghe’s WBO belt is only one versus Kessler two “most prestigious” title belts from the WBC and WBA. Palle gave little regard to Ring Magazine titles (Calzaghe is recognized by Ring as well) arguing that just “because two guys from Ring give out belts” does not make their titlists the true champion.

Palle pointed out that he offered $1.75 million pounds ($3.43 million dollars) along with British TV rights in the fall of 2006 for a March 2007 bout with Kessler in Denmark. An independently attained document dated November 7, 2006 verified this offer along with exhibiting a consistency from Palle as to acceptable terms for a bout in the UK (“the right amount of money plus exclusive Nordic country and German TV, radio and internet rights.”) Palle stated to me that Warren is “manipulating…he never replies accept through the press.” In conclusion on the issue of a Calzaghe-Kessler bout, Palle stated that, given the current state of negotiations, “I have no belief that the fight will happen at all.”

That leaves open the possibility of other opponents for Kessler. “He would like to fight (Ring Light Heavyweight king) Bernard Hopkins. Frank Warren is saying there is no reason for Calzaghe to go to the United States to fight” given the crowds Calzaghe draws. Palle stated that Kessler would be willing to come to the United States to fight Hopkins or World middleweight champion Jermain Taylor. There is reason to be optimistic that such events could take place.

Following my conversation with Palle, I spoke with another unnamed source who illuminated what had gone on in meetings with HBO. HBO allegedly views the top of this weight range as a ‘group of five’ consisting on Kessler, Calzaghe, Taylor, Hopkins and Winky Wright and if Calzaghe is not available HBO is willing to work towards any of the other big names versus “The Viking Warrior.”

This source further stated that Palle is scheduled, before returning to Denmark, for sit-downs with Taylor promoter Lou DiBella as well as Hopkins Golden Boy Promotions partner Richard Schaeffer. Considering the offer Warren made for Taylor to travel to the UK this July (Warren’s 1.6 million pound ($3.1 million) initial offer has reportedly been upped to approximately $4 million), Kessler might be in position to be the realistic European force against the biggest American names in a stateside ring.

So what’s my personal take on Calzaghe-Kessler? It’s too big not to happen eventually as long as both keep winning. The numbers Palle offered last year indicate that there is much more money in the pot already than Warren’s alarmingly low current offer approaches. It does though strike odd that the 28-year old fighter is being claimed to need more recovery time than the 35-year old. No one is asking for a return to the days when Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake Lamotta fought twice in the same month but, barring an undisclosed injury from that Andrade fight, four months should be plenty of time for a fight.

That said, this is not Roy Jones-Dariusz Michalczewski, where one fighter was a name without a face outside his home market. I remember a moment in the Legendary Nights retrospective on Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns. Angelo Dundee said that he could sense when a promotion was going to get really big and that rather than go straight from Roberto Duran to Hearns, he thought it would be better economics to let the business of Leonard-Hearns build the fight in the ring. It worked like a charm. As long as the parties in question don’t lose, it’s always worked in boxing.

The wait may seem interminable for those, like me, who have followed Kessler for much of the last few years and thought he was the most deserving contender in the division before the bout between Calzaghe and Jeff Lacy. That ignores the fact that the fight just got hot to most boxing followers. Maybe this fight does go the way of Jones-Michalczewski (or Salvador Sanchez-Eusebio Pedroza or Carlos Palomino-Pipino Cuevas). But maybe it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, we could all be looking at only the beginning of one of the biggest multi-national promotions in history.

You are mistaken. Palle has gone on record to say that Warren has offered him $3m and a share of the ticket sales since then. And rather curiously, that they thought it was a ridiculously low offer.

[crold1]

Could be a case of using Warren's past words against him (sans the facts). Could also be that these guys are really just trying to build the fight bigger with words. Jones-Kessler would probably make the fight bigger with mainstream fans which is too bad. Jones has to beat Hanshaw first though and that is in no way a given

[Peder]

I do hope that you werent one of the people criticising Calzaghe when it looked like he was going to fight RJJ. Or when he did fight Manfredo.

You think Manfredo compares to RJJ?

Again - It's Calzaghe who has made **** fights in a row, and needs something big.

And I do hope you didn't defend him when he picked Manfredo. People got every right to blame Calzaghe for not making the right fights, when he cant stop talking about them.

[.Mik.]

The only thing that currently distinguishes Manfredo from RJJ is the fact that Jones has a huge legacy. He has not won a major fight in a long time, he has not been fighting quality opposition and hasnt proven himself deserving of big fight. He is not a credible fighter anymore and Kessler should not be giving his offer of a fight any more time of day than Calzaghe and Warren did.

I did defend Calzaghe for taking the Manfredo fight and I still do...providing the next fight announced is a big one. However, I did also admit in hindsight that it was a mistake and it did not work. Kessler should have learned from that experience.

[freedom213]

this is all irrelevent dialogue and 1 of these guys and their promoters should show some balls and take the low money with the intention of winning and being the true undisputed SM champ and being in a dominant position for future negotiations. Its way past time for Joe to man up and prove he is the best and if Kessler wants to he could fight and easily beat RJJ, gaining far more exposure than Joe has ever seen at least state wide and move up and on leaving Joe wondering why didnt I make this fight many years later? it truly is do or die time for this show down to happen at super middle weight at least for Joe C.