Would Roy Jones get exposed much earlier if he fought better competetion?

[niceguy45]

replying to the subject:
hell yeah, i could almost bet on that, there was hardly any competition for RJJ, no doubt to his talent but he was just faster on feet/hands and skill level just like lil floyd

[-Hyperion-]

Tony Thorton (tough contender not a big name but still noteworthy)
Sosa
Griffin
Hill
Otis Grant
reggie johnson
telesco
Harding
glen kelly
clinton woods
tHULANI mALINGA


most of this guys wENT 12 ROUNDS WITH THE ELITE, LOST SD'S TO THE ELITE(TONEY, TARVER, BENN...), WERE BALSTED AWAY BY ROY JONES

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

You guys can't comapire guys like Calzaghe or Hopkins, they are EXCEPTIONS to the rule. He has a great point, Jones just got old. See, Jones wasn't a great boxer in the classical sence. He had such great natural ability he could do things which were considered no, no's in boxing and get away with them.

I compaire him to Shawn Kemp. Kemp was so nasty in his early years that he didn't need to really work on the fundamentals but once he got older, his lack of skills made him obsolete. Same with Jones Jr., I have his fight with Bobby Czyz and he started with an upercut from the OUTSIDE (a no, no) and then delivered 9 unanswered punches in 4 seconds! Yes, I counted, it was one of the greatest combo's I have ever seen. He relied on his speed an natural abilty too much. Once he got into his 30's, it was over for him.

[jack_the_rippuh]

Tarver and Johnson both becoming nothings disproves the point this thread maker is trying to get across.

Had it really been "better competition" that lead to him losing, either Johnson or Tarver would've been the man in the LHW division. Since neither of them are. His losses to them are clearly a case of something else.

[.Mik.]

In response to the question of the thread (rather than the quesiton of 'Is RJJ overrated...which isnt the question of the thread), then the answer is that he may not have been 'exposed', but he would almost certainly have been beat.

This is just one of the more simple facts of boxing. If you face the top guys all the time...you will slip up and end up losing to them. Why do you think that the greats like Ali and SRR were beaten a number of times? Its because they fought high level of competition.

Why do you think that NONE of the top guys fight the best guys around them every single fight? Because sooner or later they will end up losing to someone who are not as good as them simply because they have been over-worked and put into too many tough fights back to back. Thats the boxing culture these days, to protect your win record/unbeaten record and to only take the big fights every now and again.

There are a few fighters who still do that (like DLH to an extent...and look how many times he has been beaten), but the guys like RJJ, Calzaghe, Hatton, PBF etc etc. Top guys who have/had long unbeaten records do so because they dont always take on the other top guys in every fight.

Thats why the eternal question is, what is better on your legacy? To have lost against the other top fighters, or to have remained unbeaten against lower-level opponents (or in the case of most of the top guys, lower-level opponents most of the time, some top guys in there too)? This wont change any time soon.

[Liaison]

Age was the reason why his reflexes diminished but it was his ignorance that got him KO’d. When Ali lost to Frazier, he changed his style up as he couldn’t dance round like he used to against the likes of Norton, Foreman, Quarry, Frazier etc he changed it up. Go watch Calzaghe that fought against Lacy and compare it to the pre Eubank fighter, not so head on.

Jones didn’t adapt nor change

[The Noose]

Nigel Benn at his best takes Jones out (six rounds with Benn is too many rounds for Jones to escape), but doesn't 'expose' him or his chin.

Jones would have KO'd Benn before Benn KO'd Jones IMO.
Benn was wobbled and hurt many times against lesser punchers. Yes he was very dangerous wen hurt, but Jones was never reckless. And was faster and sharper than anything Benn had ever faced.

Roy looked awesome against counterpuncher type fighters that did not take the fight to him. .

Jones faced many opponents who took the fight to him, and he KO'd them.
IMO the fact that Glen Johnson was able to KTFO Jones, shows he was not nearly the same brilliant fighter he once was.

[Technical_Skill]

Do you think if Roy had faced more quality competetion earlier in his career that his chin would have gotten exposed much sooner? If he fought guy's like Nigel Benn ,Joe Calzaghe ,Darius Michalchewski , Glen Johnson ,but a couple of years earlier.

Roy looked awesome against counterpuncher type fighters that did not take the fight to him. I think the fighters above would bring the fight to him,no matter how much he was in his prime,and give him a lot of problems.

I know he beat Toney in 1994 ,but Toney's type of style was perfect for Roy because he is more of a counterpuncher who is not very aggressive. If Roy tried that same move he did on Toney on Nigel Benn or Glen Jonnson they would have been all over him before he even tried it.

Glenn Johnson,Nigel Benn and Calzaghe would have got knocked out if they had fought prime Roy Jones.

Not one of them made a sustained effort to go over to the america and fight Jones.

[-Hyperion-]

Age was the reason why his reflexes diminished but it was his ignorance that got him KO’d. When Ali lost to Frazier, he changed his style up as he couldn’t dance round like he used to against the likes of Norton, Foreman, Quarry, Frazier etc he changed it up. Go watch Calzaghe that fought against Lacy and compare it to the pre Eubank fighter, not so head on.

Jones didn’t adapt nor change

have you actually wathed any jones fights????\

jones was totallydifferent, when he started he went in there and Knocked you the **** out...after Mclellan he changed a lot...

jones didnt have a chance to change simply because he was too old to do so at 35, plus tarvers left killed him mentally...

[wmute]

Calzaghes 35, and he's still a warrior with almost unlimited amount of stamina constantly throwing punches. And still doesn't get credit on his constant action in fights.

and how does this relate to my point?

jc at 35 is not the same he was at 30: he is past his prime.

That is NOT entirely true...There are Lower weight examples as well.. But just The heavyweight list alone would take more time than I care to take...





Jones doesn't have a chin...



My favorite RJJ quote says it all... After the 3rd Tarver fight.."I dont mind getting hit..Just dont hit me TOO hard"

1. I think you know Jones is not a Heavyweight... and for the many examples of HWs in their prime at 35, the list is not so long. some were still good at 35, but only a very limited few were prime at 35, in fact Lewis is the only example which comes to my mind. possibly liston was 36 when he fought Ali, but Liston's age is a mystery.



2. Lower weight examples: Bernard Hopkins, Archie Moore (a guess... cos i didnt see his prime), Eder Jofre's come back (still, definitely not his prime), I am sure i am leaving someone out, but not many.



seriously... some top fighters made good performances at 35, but they were already slipping.



the ones who were actually prime at 35 are a handful.



the ones who based their style on reflexes, speed, athleticism are... close to none.

This is the key: we saw Toney, Moore, Hopkins age well, because they were solid technicians. Jones is more like Ali, a flawed fighter with insane speed. but a middleweight, who got knocked out at 175.

MIND, Toney and Hopkins, two other great fighters, could not hurt him or beat him.


3. Jones' chin is not Ali's chin, but it is not china either. how is it that Tarver landed on him in their first fight and that china did not shatter?

Light-heavy punches are not middleweight punches, and Jones was not exactly a natural light heavy. That being said his chin, was definitely not his biggest asset