Marciano ruined boxing...

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  • squealpiggy
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    #1

    Marciano ruined boxing...

    OK the title is conjecture, and is meant to grasp your attention rather than to indicate the topic at hand.

    However, when Marciano retired as undefeated 49-0 heavyweight champion he set the scene for the current situation in boxing whereby an undefeated fighter has huge advantages over those with losses in terms of getting the title shots and making the money. Before Rocky there was no emphasis in retiring undefeated, because nobody retired undefeated. In many ways it was like amateur boxing is today, in which some losses are expected in a long career and the main function of a loss is to learn from it and come back stronger.

    I don't have anything against a boxer who has a 0 in the losses column, not at all. You can't knock a fighter for beating every single person they have ever faced in the ring. That would be foolish. On the other hand, in the desire to protect their fighter's saleability by keeping their winning record intact, promoters have a disincentive to actually match their fighters against dangerous opponents and make the best fights happen. This is amply demonstrated by the lack of action between Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather Jr. The principles and their teams have their reasons and excuses but one can't help feeling that if there wasn't so much to lose from a defeat these matches would have happened long ago and some of those fighters, maybe all of them, would have their 0 gone.

    If you look at the greatest of all time you notice that they all have one thing in common, they all have losses on their records. They almost all have been defeated and returned to avenge their loss against their conqueror. Even fighters who nobody would put on their all time great list have won the admiration and respect of the public, and become legends in their own rights, for their courage and tenacity in coming back from the abyss to fight and win against the odds...

    There is a Samurai proverb about the nature of being a warrior: Fall down seven times, stand up eight. A fighter who can stand up that one last time is greater than the one who never fell, or at least shows more of the courageous spirit that makes boxing what it is.

    I'm not knocking Marciano and his record. 49-0 is impressive. But is Rocky's record impressive because of that zero? Or is it those wins we should be highlighting? For me his 49 wins including 43 knockouts over the very best opposition at the time are what makes it exceptional, not the fact that noone ever beat him.
  • TyrantT316
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    #2
    Originally posted by squealpiggy
    "Marciano ruined boxing..."

    "I'm not knocking Marciano and his record."
    ... ...

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    • squealpiggy
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      #3
      So you didn't read it then?

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      • Easy-E
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        #4
        People who dont lose fights SHOULD have higher precedent when it comes to making money and getting title shots, because they havent lost.

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        • squealpiggy
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          #5
          Even if they haven't fought anyone? For example should Sven Ottke have been getting more money than, say, James Toney because of Toney's six losses?

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          • Easy-E
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            #6
            Originally posted by squealpiggy
            Even if they haven't fought anyone? For example should Sven Ottke have been getting more money than, say, James Toney because of Toney's six losses?
            Thats obviously not what Im talking about.
            Its about being a good fighter first, and ill use your example.
            Toney made more money than Ottke because he was a better fighter.

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            • .Mik.
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              #7
              Interesting read. There is a preoccupation in every sport with achieving perfection and it just happens that the closest you can get to perfection in boxing is by not losing. So it was always going to go that way eventually.

              You make some good points though, if it wasnt because of that preoccupation we may well have had many more interesting fights over the years. Its not ducking as such and its ****** that people always consider it to be that every time someone doesnt want to fight someone else. Its more just protection and its a shame.

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              • realheavyhands
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                #8
                Originally posted by squealpiggy
                OK the title is conjecture, and is meant to grasp your attention rather than to indicate the topic at hand.

                However, when Marciano retired as undefeated 49-0 heavyweight champion he set the scene for the current situation in boxing whereby an undefeated fighter has huge advantages over those with losses in terms of getting the title shots and making the money. Before Rocky there was no emphasis in retiring undefeated, because nobody retired undefeated. In many ways it was like amateur boxing is today, in which some losses are expected in a long career and the main function of a loss is to learn from it and come back stronger.

                I don't have anything against a boxer who has a 0 in the losses column, not at all. You can't knock a fighter for beating every single person they have ever faced in the ring. That would be foolish. On the other hand, in the desire to protect their fighter's saleability by keeping their winning record intact, promoters have a disincentive to actually match their fighters against dangerous opponents and make the best fights happen. This is amply demonstrated by the lack of action between Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather Jr. The principles and their teams have their reasons and excuses but one can't help feeling that if there wasn't so much to lose from a defeat these matches would have happened long ago and some of those fighters, maybe all of them, would have their 0 gone.

                If you look at the greatest of all time you notice that they all have one thing in common, they all have losses on their records. They almost all have been defeated and returned to avenge their loss against their conqueror. Even fighters who nobody would put on their all time great list have won the admiration and respect of the public, and become legends in their own rights, for their courage and tenacity in coming back from the abyss to fight and win against the odds...

                There is a Samurai proverb about the nature of being a warrior: Fall down seven times, stand up eight. A fighter who can stand up that one last time is greater than the one who never fell, or at least shows more of the courageous spirit that makes boxing what it is.

                I'm not knocking Marciano and his record. 49-0 is impressive. But is Rocky's record impressive because of that zero? Or is it those wins we should be highlighting? For me his 49 wins including 43 knockouts over the very best opposition at the time are what makes it exceptional, not the fact that noone ever beat him.
                I AGREE.. EVEN THO A COUPLE BLACK FIGHTERS WERE ROBBED AGAINST HIM ...

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                • Jim_Davis
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                  #9
                  If you never lost then you never went to war.

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                  • .Mik.
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                    #10
                    Well thats not true at all. Marciana was just very good at coming out of wars with a victory.

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