Pavlik is too raw for the top Middleweights

[BigCol]

That's not the only thing raw about him. The way he throws his punches looks like he doesn't know how to aim them but just swings hoping to hit somewhere. Also, some might say that he "varies his speed" when he throws but it seems to me more like he slows down as he tries to measure his opponent. That's very dangerous against anybody who's in the top 5 right now.



See above. He might have a good combination every once in a while, but his form is HORRIBLE at best. He really looks amateurish sometimes when he throws and he admires his punches too much, too. He'll connect a right hand and just look at the other guy to see if he hurt him. A half-way decent counter-puncher will just eat this guy up for lunch.

You're talking out of your ass. The only insult I have towards Pavlik's style is he slaps the left hook and throws it a little wide. His right hand is a thing of beauty and I like his uppercut and the way he throws his combinations.

[Evil Empire]

Funny how the HBO BAD team talked about Pavlik not being able to have "defensive lapses" and now everyone is saying that is going to lead to his fall... Miranda is not very technically sound and makes a ton of mistakes as well... Pavlik can also punch and has shown a decent chin... I make this fight even money... Pavlik is the better fighter... Miranda is the stronger fighter...

[-EX-]

I don't think he could beat Miranda, Abraham, or Taylor. I think he could survive against Jermain and Arthur, but if Miranda caught him good it would be a night. I think Winky Wright would just totally outbox him. I can't say for Jermain since u don't know what to expect. Jermain has power and speed but is sloppy in areas.

[Hitman932]

Funny how the HBO BAD team talked about Pavlik not being able to have "defensive lapses" and now everyone is saying that is going to lead to his fall... Miranda is not very technically sound and makes a ton of mistakes as well... Pavlik can also punch and has shown a decent chin... I make this fight even money... Pavlik is the better fighter... Miranda is the stronger fighter...

i agree 100 percent, good observation....

pavlik will hammer miranda down the middle if miranda doeent come straight after him with relentless pressure from the opening bell.

i still dont get this obsession with miranda, maybe i need to watch the eastman fight again, i only watched it live and i thought miranda was average at best, sure his power is real but unless i am mistaken he was rocked numerous times in that fight, showed very sloppy footwork at times and to be honest i thought eastman stunk it up... i thought at the time "this guy is a couple fights away from challenging for a title" so i was surprised to see him fighting abraham immediately following....

so i see the fight starting fast and ending early, miranda has no other choice... there will be no "defensive lapses" cause this will be an action fight from the start... even money is perfect in this instance but i will bet that pavlik wins this fight....

no way in heaven or hell miranda can take the shots zertuche did, and he is just as likely to be hit with them... and more likely to be off balance and/or exposed... pavlik i believe can withstand the amount of punishment necessary to weather mirandas storm.. if he gets through the first 3 rounds miranda will come apart much faster than zertuche...

i told pantera, the miranda #1 fan, that Miranda would go half as long as zertuche did

so i am standing by my word and saying Pavlik by TKO in the 4th.

[Hitman932]

I don't think he could beat Miranda, Abraham, or Taylor. I think he could survive against Jermain and Arthur, but if Miranda caught him good it would be a night. I think Winky Wright would just totally outbox him. I can't say for Jermain since u don't know what to expect. Jermain has power and speed but is sloppy in areas.

you gotta respect pavliks power at 160, it is arguably greater than that of taylor, and abraham and certainly wright.. miranda is more powerful but the precision of pavliks punches makes it a sort of klitschko vs peter power issue but on a middleweight level... pavlik can hide that right hand behind his long jab and if it lands on the chin of anybody it is goodnight for them too....

zertuche showed a hard ass head to last as long as he did, despite him being an average boxer his chinned is probably as good as anyones at the weight.

[deuce_drop]

Yup, just like the title says. After watching two of Pavlik's fights (Zertuche and McKart), I was searching for a word to describe him. I didn't want to use amateurish, because that's not really it. He's just too raw and green and while he would have a puncher's chance against Abraham, Miranda, Wright, and Taylor, I doubt he'd be able to beat them more than 1 time out of 10. I'd pick any of those to beat Pavlik by UD (Taylor and Wright) or KO (Miranda and Abraham).

I'd love to see him fight either Miranda or Abraham just to get this guy off of everyone's hype list.

i agree, i think pavlik needs more experience as well as better hand speed and better defense, against someone like miranda or taylor, they'd jump all over him and swarm him after getting him stunned, it's a different level of opposition and i think that he needs to fight guys who are closer to being on that level than him. but as of now he's moving along nicely and gradual all there is to do is step it up more and more, i'd say about 3 more good fights against world class fighters he ought to be good enough to take a solid shot at the title.

[-Antonio-]

In reality, the top middleweights (Taylor, Miranda, Abraham) are all very raw.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Taylor does so many bad things in the ring, yet he gets away with it with pure athleticism. Miranda is far from a boxing technician. I havent seen much of Abraham though.

[Atnan]

pavlik has just as good a chance to beat arthur/miranda/taylor than anyone! i mean technically hes better than all 3 and has lots of POP to his punch! i see this division becoming that one division that brings back boxing from the **** hole its in now, hopefully wright gets out the picture b/c hes the cure to insomina..( no disrespect to any of his fans, its just he boring to the main stream fans and has absoltely no chance of knocking any of these guys out, and iam willing to bet my bank account on it)

[kayjay]

That's not the only thing raw about him. The way he throws his punches looks like he doesn't know how to aim them but just swings hoping to hit somewhere. Also, some might say that he "varies his speed" when he throws but it seems to me more like he slows down as he tries to measure his opponent. That's very dangerous against anybody who's in the top 5 right now.

See above. He might have a good combination every once in a while, but his form is HORRIBLE at best. He really looks amateurish sometimes when he throws and he admires his punches too much, too. He'll connect a right hand and just look at the other guy to see if he hurt him. A half-way decent counter-puncher will just eat this guy up for lunch.

I'm with the threadstarter. Pavlik's fun to watch and he entertained and earned his check Saturday. But he's not elite. Threadstarter notes a few flaws, and is correct about them. I'll add that I think that he is not so much as green but instead just a tad awkward. Both his punches and his defense look educated, when he focuses exactly on what he's doing at a given moment. But as Lennox was pointing out frequently he doesn't counterpunch at all, and I think he stays open a bit long when he lands. There were moments when I thought Zertuche could take over the fight, and a bigger puncher may have. Pavlik could have stayed back and made it ewasy, but he kept moving in - -- - proof I hope that his fights asre all going to be rough and tumble. He will provide good moments, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the canvas against better competition.

[PRboxingfan]

I'm with the threadstarter. Pavlik's fun to watch and he entertained and earned his check Saturday. But he's not elite. Threadstarter notes a few flaws, and is correct about them. I'll add that I think that he is not so much as green but instead just a tad awkward. Both his punches and his defense look educated, when he focuses exactly on what he's doing at a given moment. But as Lennox was pointing out frequently he doesn't counterpunch at all, and I think he stays open a bit long when he lands. There were moments when I thought Zertuche could take over the fight, and a bigger puncher may have. Pavlik could have stayed back and made it ewasy, but he kept moving in - -- - proof I hope that his fights asre all going to be rough and tumble. He will provide good moments, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the canvas against better competition.

He is awkward, that's for sure. He's too much of his own fan while fighting, tho, and will too often stop to admire his work (i.e. throw a punch and see if it affected his opponent rather than keep fighting or move around). This causes him to stand still too long and any halfway decent counterpuncher will eat him for dinner.

Also, while his right hand is straight, his left really loops around and provides ample space for someone to step inside and beat him to the punch, especially to the body. Also, his punches are not well aimed. It seems like he just throws to an area rather than to a specific spot. This causes his punches to be a bit slower than they should be.

Listen, I'm no trainer, and I don't profess to be a boxing expert or analyst, I'm just a fan, as my name implies, with my own opinion. That being said, seldom do I watch a top-10 fighter and think note enough flaws for me to think that even I could exploit them. That happened in both Pavlik fights I've seen. And, if I am able to spot them and think I can capitalize, how do you think a professional boxer and his corner will do (at least a good fighter with a good corner).