top 10 list of all-time Mexican fighters - by Ron Borges

[amaru]

Let's not even bring up the age thing. Everyone knows Morales is done, the man gave everything he had and has been in just about as many ring wars as anyone throughout history.

Did you really just put Rocky Juarez up there as to a reason why Barrera is better than Morales? I give you some solid, solid reasoning of Erik being one of the greatest ever at a certain weight and you come back with Rocky Juarez? Pfft....Juarez has done nothing to assert himself on the level of the fighters that Morales took on at 130. If Erik Morales didn't give EVERY ounce of what was left of his career battling Manny Pacquiao...and he in turn fought the Mzonke Fanas and Robbie Peden's of the world then this wouldn't be a discussion.

So his win over Hamed alone would boost him up higher than Morales eh? Morales' win over Manny Pacquiao is as good or better than the win over Hamed. Pacquiao has proven to be a hall of fame type of fighter and is universally ranked at #1, #2, or #3 in everyones p4p lists. There goes that one...

Barrera is NOT the Morales conqueror. Three close, split fights with controversial decisions wouldn't mete out fighter A being the "conqueror" of fighter B. In many peoples minds, Erik won the second fight hands down. However in some peoples minds, Barrera may have edged the first fight, lost the second, etc. Those bouts were all razor thin.

In the end it really comes down to Erik pushing his career as hard as he could and Barrera taking the easy road at points later in his career. It also comes down to Erik being the very best (although Barrera was a great 122'er as well) in his natural weight class. If Barrera would have manned up and went after Pacquiao immediately then he may not even be on the map at this point.

you say juarez has done nothin to assert himself on the level of fighters morales has taken on at 130lbs, but in all honesty what the hell has chavez and even hernandez do at 130lbs that made them great fighters?? who did they beat, what great fighters did they fight and beat to make them so great at 130lbs?? what did guty espades do at 130lbs?? so dont try and belittle barreras wins against juarez, juarez is a good fighter and would give any active fighter trouble in the ring.

erik morales is a great fighter and your right he did leave and put every ounce of what was left in his career battling manny pacquioa and lookin at him doing that, im sorry to say it was very silly of him to do that, he is now finished as a top active fighter because of this, had he taken a few tune up fights, to try and get his confidence back, or to try and have less wars, perhaps we all would not be sayin morales should retire, or morales is finished, or morales is behind barrera on a list, barrera is the smarter fighter, which is why he probably did not get back in the ring with pacquiao straight away, and morales should have doen the same, but hes pride probably did not allow that.

barreras win over hamed is just as good as morales win over pacman, people seem to try and underate naseem hamed but its just because barrera made him look so bad that night, you gotta remember hamed held the WBC, IBF and WBO belts at 126lbs, beat good fighters and was 35-0 with 31 KO's i think, before facing barrera, hamed was a great win for barrera theres no denying that, and so is morales win over pacmans. barrera gave hamed and morales their first losses too.

and whether you like it or not barrera IS morales conquerer, he beat him in 2 fights out of 3, he conquered him, and 2-1 to barrera is about right, barrera got screwed in their first fight, morales got screwed in their 2nd fight, but their 3rd fight barrera clearly won, it doesnt matter if the decisions were razor thin, the fact is that barrera has beaten morales twice, and their is no shame in morales losing to barrera, barrera is a great fighter, its like if you put all the 36 rounds together barrera probably only won by about 2 rounds at the most, the fact is he still conquered morales by beating him.

i agree with you sayin morales pushed his career as hard as he could, but i disagree with you sayin barrera took the easy route in certain points in his career if anything, this has prolonged his career, fights with manny pacquiao, junior jones, naseem hamed, kennedy mckinney, tapia, enrique sanchez, rocky juarez, jesus salud, juan manuel marquez you think is an easy route in his career?? some fights were his mandatories and whats wrong with fightin tune up fights in your career, morales has taken easy fights in his career too, had morales done that too, taken some easy fights in his career more often after his wars, had he done that a bit more, he probably would still be a top fighter. i guess you are very hard to please when analysing barreras career, barrera, just like morales has faced everyone in his weight classes, whether he has won or lost fights, he has not ducked nobody.

and your right, had barrera faced up with pacman straight after he would be just like morales....... he would not be on the map at this point which is why he probably did the smartest thing he could do and get his confidence back physcially and physcologically by fighting other fighters, winning belts, unifying belts and in the process making history, and before he retires, tries to give one last shot at beating pacquiao.

[oldgringo]

you say juarez has done nothin to assert himself on the level of fighters morales has taken on at 130lbs, but in all honesty what the hell has chavez and even hernandez do at 130lbs that made them great fighters?? who did they beat, what great fighters did they fight and beat to make them so great at 130lbs?? what did guty espades do at 130lbs?? so dont try and belittle barreras wins against juarez, juarez is a good fighter and would give any active fighter trouble in the ring.

erik morales is a great fighter and your right he did leave and put every ounce of what was left in his career battling manny pacquioa and lookin at him doing that, im sorry to say it was very silly of him to do that, he is now finished as a top active fighter because of this, had he taken a few tune up fights, to try and get his confidence back, or to try and have less wars, perhaps we all would not be sayin morales should retire, or morales is finished, or morales is behind barrera on a list, barrera is the smarter fighter, which is why he probably did not get back in the ring with pacquiao straight away, and morales should have doen the same, but hes pride probably did not allow that.

barreras win over hamed is just as good as morales win over pacman, people seem to try and underate naseem hamed but its just because barrera made him look so bad that night, you gotta remember hamed held the WBC, IBF and WBO belts at 126lbs, beat good fighters and was 35-0 with 31 KO's i think, before facing barrera, hamed was a great win for barrera theres no denying that, and so is morales win over pacmans. barrera gave hamed and morales their first losses too.

and whether you like it or not barrera IS morales conquerer, he beat him in 2 fights out of 3, he conquered him, and 2-1 to barrera is about right, barrera got screwed in their first fight, morales got screwed in their 2nd fight, but their 3rd fight barrera clearly won, it doesnt matter if the decisions were razor thin, the fact is that barrera has beaten morales twice, and their is no shame in morales losing to barrera, barrera is a great fighter, its like if you put all the 36 rounds together barrera probably only won by about 2 rounds at the most, the fact is he still conquered morales by beating him.

i agree with you sayin morales pushed his career as hard as he could, but i disagree with you sayin barrera took the easy route in certain points in his career if anything, this has prolonged his career, fights with manny pacquiao, junior jones, naseem hamed, kennedy mckinney, tapia, enrique sanchez, rocky juarez, jesus salud, juan manuel marquez you think is an easy route in his career?? some fights were his mandatories and whats wrong with fightin tune up fights in your career, morales has taken easy fights in his career too, had morales done that too, taken some easy fights in his career more often after his wars, had he done that a bit more, he probably would still be a top fighter. i guess you are very hard to please when analysing barreras career, barrera, just like morales has faced everyone in his weight classes, whether he has won or lost fights, he has not ducked nobody.

and your right, had barrera faced up with pacman straight after he would be just like morales....... he would not be on the map at this point which is why he probably did the smartest thing he could do and get his confidence back physcially and physcologically by fighting other fighters, winning belts, unifying belts and in the process making history, and before he retires, tries to give one last shot at beating pacquiao.

Good post sir. I respect your opinion...you brought in some good points.

Allow me to counter.

Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez have won WORLD TITLES in the divisions in which they have fought. In fact, Carlos Hernandez is El Salvador's first world titlist in boxing history, a very nice achievement for him.

Jesus Chavez has proven to be a bull and has gone the extra step to win a world title. The guy stood 8 tough rounds with Floyd Mayweather and gave him a hard fight before being shut down. He has beaten a lot of solid fighters in his career (some of which were late into their careers). He holds wins over Gerena, Juaregui, Johnson, and Hernandez. The guy has been up around the top of the 130 pound division for a long time now. Hernandez has notable wins against guys like Goyo Vargas and Steve Forbes. I can't remember the name of the fella he fought when he won the title. He also stood tough with Floyd Mayweather. I believe that Jesus Chavez is a better fighter than is Rocky Juarez.

I think you are the first person to ever say it was silly that a fighter left his heart in the ring. Erik went to war EVERY time he fought...this is something to be GREATLY respected...not frowned upon. I don't think you are being insulting or anything...don't get me wrong. I also don't think you are placing enough value on that aspect of Erik though.

With regard to Erik's win over Pacquiao and Barrera's win over Hamed...you basically said the same thing I did. Those wins were both special and have great value. I was just pointing out that Erik held that great win over Pacquiao because Run made it a point to say that Barrera's win over Hamed boosted him up above Erik in some historical sense. I could even go so far as to say that Pacquiao will be remembered as a greater fighter, therefore Erik's win over him is greater...lets not go there quite yet though.

Barrera does have the two wins in the books over Morales. I personally thought that there should have been no need for a third fight as Erik won the first two clearly in my eyes, but to each his own. I wouldn't go so far as to say any of the fights were "robberies", but the second fight was the wrong decision in my eyes and in the eyes of many ringside observers. I think the phantom KD in the first fight throws a lot of people for a loop.

I wasn't meaning that Barrera has constantly taken the easy route in his career...just more often than has Morales. Erik has been extremely ambitious with his career...something to be admired. His first step up fight came quicker than Barreras and it was against a more dangerous opponent in Zaragoza. Hell...his first step up was really against a good 122 pounder in HA Sanchez and he won that in impressive fashion. Then he goes up to 126 and takes on everyone there...including the dangerous In-Jin Chi. He also beat better versions of Kelley and Ayala. Again...it's not to say that Barrera hasn't faced everyone and all, but Erik just was always pushing the big fights against the titlists.

If Marco happens to emerge victorious over Marquez and goes on to *somehow* defeat Pacquiao, then I may shift my opinion to say that he had the better career because of his truimphs in his later career. As it stands however, I give it to Morales because of his 122 pound dominance, his ambitious career, and his performances in the ring. As great as Barrera has been, he WAS dominated and stopped in a couple of instances throughout his "prime" years. This never happened to Erik...another reason I rate him higher.

[amaru]

Good post sir. I respect your opinion...you brought in some good points.

Allow me to counter.

Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez have won WORLD TITLES in the divisions in which they have fought. In fact, Carlos Hernandez is El Salvador's first world titlist in boxing history, a very nice achievement for him.

Jesus Chavez has proven to be a bull and has gone the extra step to win a world title. The guy stood 8 tough rounds with Floyd Mayweather and gave him a hard fight before being shut down. He has beaten a lot of solid fighters in his career (some of which were late into their careers). He holds wins over Gerena, Juaregui, Johnson, and Hernandez. The guy has been up around the top of the 130 pound division for a long time now. Hernandez has notable wins against guys like Goyo Vargas and Steve Forbes. I can't remember the name of the fella he fought when he won the title. He also stood tough with Floyd Mayweather. I believe that Jesus Chavez is a better fighter than is Rocky Juarez.

I think you are the first person to ever say it was silly that a fighter left his heart in the ring. Erik went to war EVERY time he fought...this is something to be GREATLY respected...not frowned upon. I don't think you are being insulting or anything...don't get me wrong. I also don't think you are placing enough value on that aspect of Erik though.

With regard to Erik's win over Pacquiao and Barrera's win over Hamed...you basically said the same thing I did. Those wins were both special and have great value. I was just pointing out that Erik held that great win over Pacquiao because Run made it a point to say that Barrera's win over Hamed boosted him up above Erik in some historical sense. I could even go so far as to say that Pacquiao will be remembered as a greater fighter, therefore Erik's win over him is greater...lets not go there quite yet though.

Barrera does have the two wins in the books over Morales. I personally thought that there should have been no need for a third fight as Erik won the first two clearly in my eyes, but to each his own. I wouldn't go so far as to say any of the fights were "robberies", but the second fight was the wrong decision in my eyes and in the eyes of many ringside observers. I think the phantom KD in the first fight throws a lot of people for a loop.

I wasn't meaning that Barrera has constantly taken the easy route in his career...just more often than has Morales. Erik has been extremely ambitious with his career...something to be admired. His first step up fight came quicker than Barreras and it was against a more dangerous opponent in Zaragoza. Hell...his first step up was really against a good 122 pounder in HA Sanchez and he won that in impressive fashion. Then he goes up to 126 and takes on everyone there...including the dangerous In-Jin Chi. He also beat better versions of Kelley and Ayala. Again...it's not to say that Barrera hasn't faced everyone and all, but Erik just was always pushing the big fights against the titlists.

If Marco happens to emerge victorious over Marquez and goes on to *somehow* defeat Pacquiao, then I may shift my opinion to say that he had the better career because of his truimphs in his later career. As it stands however, I give it to Morales because of his 122 pound dominance, his ambitious career, and his performances in the ring. As great as Barrera has been, he WAS dominated and stopped in a couple of instances throughout his "prime" years. This never happened to Erik...another reason I rate him higher.

great post bro, its good that we can have a debate and discuss these fighters, ive been in some pacman threads regardin morales and barrera and its hard to talk like this.. lol, i respect your opinions and you too bring up good points that back up your views.

when i said morales was silly to go straight back in with pacman, i was never questioning his heart, what i meant was that he should have perhaps taken a tune up fight to see if he "still has it" to see if he had the same reflexes, the same stamina, the legs he needed to fight a monster in pacman, morales has tremendous heart and i actually respect him for it and going straight back in their with pacman, but if im honest it was silly of him to do that, esepcially regarding the punishment he got in that 2nd fight, he didnt allow his body to rest and that was a mistake.

regarding morales and barreras 3 fights, if im honest i think barrera won all 3 fights...BUT can understand why people thought morales won the 2nd fight and i would have no complaints if he got the decision, however just like you said most ring side observers and you felt that morales won the 2nd fight, alot of ring side observers thought that barrera won the first fight, very few people had morales winnin that first fight, even if the knock down was suspect in their first fight, barrera still won the last round without the knockdown.

morales has been very ambitious in his carrer so has barrera, you have to remember barrera started his career as a FLYWEIGHT, he is now a 130lbs fighter, he could probably still make 126lbs comfortably and maybe even 122lbs again, all im sayin is that barrera has been fightin guys bigger than him for a long time, barrera was even going to fight jesus chavez at 135lbs, thats very ambitious for barrera as well as very dangerous for him because he is not naturally a 130lbs fighter let alone a 135lbs fighter.

although morales fought zaragoza, was that a prime zaragoza?? he was 37 years old and it was like a passing of the torch match, making morales the new kid on the block.

barrera has been knocked out and dominated, so has morales, against raheem where he was outboxed and against pacquiao in their 2nd and 3rd fights where he was dominated and KO'd, barrera has never been KO'd in 3 rounds, and if im honest, i think barrera was in his "prime years" from 2000-2002, when he took on the likes morales twice, hamed, jesus salud, enrique sanchez, tapia and kelly, not when he was 43-0 and facing junior jones the first time. he was still raw and did not have boxing ability, he was a slugger back then, 2000-2002 was barreras best years in my opinion where he was not dominated or KO'd. morales although was not in his prime years when he foguht pacman and raheem still had the tools to win, but he did not, morales has also lost more fights then barrera, although there is no shame in either fighters losses, they have lost to good and great fighters.

regarding hernandez, im sure winning a world titlist is a great achievement for himself like you rightly pointed out, but other than that what has he done to perhaps make him enter the hall of fame? or make him mentioned amongst the top guys at 130lbs??? i could say robbie peden was one of the very few australian fighters that won a world title and can say that is a good achievement for him, barrera beat peden, so does that mean this will add to barreras accomlishments??

chavez is a tough fighter and a good fighter, but he does not have that win against a "top" fighter in my opinion, the best fighters always seem to defeat him. he has solid wins ill give you that.

i rate barrera higher than morales because of his accomplishments (3 weight world champion), beaten top fighters, just like morales, his versatility when it comes to boxing, he has many different styles, he can box, slug, counter, fight on the back foot, his longevity, the fact that he is still at the top in boxing and he is 33 years old, he is a world champion and has the potential to still achieve alot more than morales at this stage in their careers, and for me most importantly is their trilogy, and barrera is 2-1 up in that, he won their trilogy and that is a great accomplishment too.

[Run]

Good post sir. I respect your opinion...you brought in some good points.

Allow me to counter.

Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez have won WORLD TITLES in the divisions in which they have fought. In fact, Carlos Hernandez is El Salvador's first world titlist in boxing history, a very nice achievement for him.

Jesus Chavez has proven to be a bull and has gone the extra step to win a world title. The guy stood 8 tough rounds with Floyd Mayweather and gave him a hard fight before being shut down. He has beaten a lot of solid fighters in his career (some of which were late into their careers). He holds wins over Gerena, Juaregui, Johnson, and Hernandez. The guy has been up around the top of the 130 pound division for a long time now. Hernandez has notable wins against guys like Goyo Vargas and Steve Forbes. I can't remember the name of the fella he fought when he won the title. He also stood tough with Floyd Mayweather. I believe that Jesus Chavez is a better fighter than is Rocky Juarez.

I think you are the first person to ever say it was silly that a fighter left his heart in the ring. Erik went to war EVERY time he fought...this is something to be GREATLY respected...not frowned upon. I don't think you are being insulting or anything...don't get me wrong. I also don't think you are placing enough value on that aspect of Erik though.

With regard to Erik's win over Pacquiao and Barrera's win over Hamed...you basically said the same thing I did. Those wins were both special and have great value. I was just pointing out that Erik held that great win over Pacquiao because Run made it a point to say that Barrera's win over Hamed boosted him up above Erik in some historical sense. I could even go so far as to say that Pacquiao will be remembered as a greater fighter, therefore Erik's win over him is greater...lets not go there quite yet though.

Barrera does have the two wins in the books over Morales. I personally thought that there should have been no need for a third fight as Erik won the first two clearly in my eyes, but to each his own. I wouldn't go so far as to say any of the fights were "robberies", but the second fight was the wrong decision in my eyes and in the eyes of many ringside observers. I think the phantom KD in the first fight throws a lot of people for a loop.

I wasn't meaning that Barrera has constantly taken the easy route in his career...just more often than has Morales. Erik has been extremely ambitious with his career...something to be admired. His first step up fight came quicker than Barreras and it was against a more dangerous opponent in Zaragoza. Hell...his first step up was really against a good 122 pounder in HA Sanchez and he won that in impressive fashion. Then he goes up to 126 and takes on everyone there...including the dangerous In-Jin Chi. He also beat better versions of Kelley and Ayala. Again...it's not to say that Barrera hasn't faced everyone and all, but Erik just was always pushing the big fights against the titlists.

If Marco happens to emerge victorious over Marquez and goes on to *somehow* defeat Pacquiao, then I may shift my opinion to say that he had the better career because of his truimphs in his later career. As it stands however, I give it to Morales because of his 122 pound dominance, his ambitious career, and his performances in the ring. As great as Barrera has been, he WAS dominated and stopped in a couple of instances throughout his "prime" years. This never happened to Erik...another reason I rate him higher.

Oh so wait a minute.

If M.A.B. beats J.M.M. and then goes on to "somehow" beat Pacquiao....you'll MAYBE then consider ranking him above Morales? LMFAO.

Quit the Morales nuthugging. You're one of the only people on earth who actually believes he's as good a fighter as Barrera is.

The third fight between Barrera and Morales was not that razor thin either, Barrera clearly established his technical dominance with the left hand.

You discredit Juarez as a legitimate opponent....and you turn around and praise Jesus Chavez? Then you had the audacity to list Javier Jaregui as a credible opponent when listing off guys Chavez has beat.

The victory over hamed is more important than anything Morales has done.

End of story.



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[oldgringo]

great post bro, its good that we can have a debate and discuss these fighters, ive been in some pacman threads regardin morales and barrera and its hard to talk like this.. lol, i respect your opinions and you too bring up good points that back up your views.

when i said morales was silly to go straight back in with pacman, i was never questioning his heart, what i meant was that he should have perhaps taken a tune up fight to see if he "still has it" to see if he had the same reflexes, the same stamina, the legs he needed to fight a monster in pacman, morales has tremendous heart and i actually respect him for it and going straight back in their with pacman, but if im honest it was silly of him to do that, esepcially regarding the punishment he got in that 2nd fight, he didnt allow his body to rest and that was a mistake.

regarding morales and barreras 3 fights, if im honest i think barrera won all 3 fights...BUT can understand why people thought morales won the 2nd fight and i would have no complaints if he got the decision, however just like you said most ring side observers and you felt that morales won the 2nd fight, alot of ring side observers thought that barrera won the first fight, very few people had morales winnin that first fight, even if the knock down was suspect in their first fight, barrera still won the last round without the knockdown.

morales has been very ambitious in his carrer so has barrera, you have to remember barrera started his career as a FLYWEIGHT, he is now a 130lbs fighter, he could probably still make 126lbs comfortably and maybe even 122lbs again, all im sayin is that barrera has been fightin guys bigger than him for a long time, barrera was even going to fight jesus chavez at 135lbs, thats very ambitious for barrera as well as very dangerous for him because he is not naturally a 130lbs fighter let alone a 135lbs fighter.

although morales fought zaragoza, was that a prime zaragoza?? he was 37 years old and it was like a passing of the torch match, making morales the new kid on the block.

barrera has been knocked out and dominated, so has morales, against raheem where he was outboxed and against pacquiao in their 2nd and 3rd fights where he was dominated and KO'd, barrera has never been KO'd in 3 rounds, and if im honest, i think barrera was in his "prime years" from 2000-2002, when he took on the likes morales twice, hamed, jesus salud, enrique sanchez, tapia and kelly, not when he was 43-0 and facing junior jones the first time. he was still raw and did not have boxing ability, he was a slugger back then, 2000-2002 was barreras best years in my opinion where he was not dominated or KO'd. morales although was not in his prime years when he foguht pacman and raheem still had the tools to win, but he did not, morales has also lost more fights then barrera, although there is no shame in either fighters losses, they have lost to good and great fighters.

regarding hernandez, im sure winning a world titlist is a great achievement for himself like you rightly pointed out, but other than that what has he done to perhaps make him enter the hall of fame? or make him mentioned amongst the top guys at 130lbs??? i could say robbie peden was one of the very few australian fighters that won a world title and can say that is a good achievement for him, barrera beat peden, so does that mean this will add to barreras accomlishments??

chavez is a tough fighter and a good fighter, but he does not have that win against a "top" fighter in my opinion, the best fighters always seem to defeat him. he has solid wins ill give you that.

i rate barrera higher than morales because of his accomplishments (3 weight world champion), beaten top fighters, just like morales, his versatility when it comes to boxing, he has many different styles, he can box, slug, counter, fight on the back foot, his longevity, the fact that he is still at the top in boxing and he is 33 years old, he is a world champion and has the potential to still achieve alot more than morales at this stage in their careers, and for me most importantly is their trilogy, and barrera is 2-1 up in that, he won their trilogy and that is a great accomplishment too.

On that note i think we have covered some good stuff and it's out there for everyone else to decide. Good chat.

[oldgringo]

Oh so wait a minute.

If M.A.B. beats J.M.M. and then goes on to "somehow" beat Pacquiao....you'll MAYBE then consider ranking him above Morales? LMFAO.

Quit the Morales nuthugging. You're one of the only people on earth who actually believes he's as good a fighter as Barrera is.

The third fight between Barrera and Morales was not that razor thin either, Barrera clearly established his technical dominance with the left hand.

You discredit Juarez as a legitimate opponent....and you turn around and praise Jesus Chavez? Then you had the audacity to list Javier Jaregui as a credible opponent when listing off guys Chavez has beat.

The victory over hamed is more important than anything Morales has done.

End of story.

Wins over Marquez and Pacquiao would be big time wins at the end of his career. It'd prove his 130 campaign wasn't made on beating C+ level fighters. Is that wrong?

I am not "one of the only people on earth who believes Morales is as good a fighter as Barrera." Now you're just making foolish statements. This isn't some wash...very few people think that one of these guys is heads and shoulders above the other. If this were such a clear subject then there wouldn't be people debating all of the time as to who is better sir.

Barrera winning something like 7-5 isn't razor thin? Morales almost scoring a KD in the final round to even up the cards isn't razor thin? Both guys being rocked in a close majority decision outcome isn't razor thin? I thought it was a clear win for Barrera...a razor thin clear win. Just like I thought the first fight was a razor thin clear win for Morales.

It's not discrediting Juarez as a legitimate opponent...you were just trying to build him up as some reason to rank Marco above Erik...which he is not worthy of. You said you rank Marco higher because of his 3 division wins, his win over Hamed, and the fights with Juarez or something to that effect. that's bull**** and you know it. I'd look elsewhere for significant historical impact on Marco's career.

My point with Chavez is that HE HAS ACTUALLY WON A WORLD TITLE AND HAS WINS OVER CREDIBLE, NAME OPPONENTS. Juarez has struggled badly with every step up fighter he has fought. He looked like **** against Raheem, Soto, Barrera, etc. He hasn't won jack...once he does something besides crushes some shot, ex-champions then remind me. Don't sit here and **** on Jauregui either. The man is a former champion who is very tough and he stopped your boy Castillo on cuts twice. He's more credible than anyone Juarez has BEAT.

So basically you are now saying that the Hamed win is bigger than the Pacquiao win. I doubt it. Pacquiao's wins over Barrera and Morales, his work at lower weights, and his bright future already put him on or ahead of Hamed's level.

Morales was a HOF fighter when he was done with his 122 pound career. He could have called it a day and he would have been in. The stuff he did at 130 was icing on the cake, and it was some pretty good ****ing icing. He immediately took on 3 of the best in that division and he beat all of them. He has beaten 3-4 hall of famers and he was THE man in every division he fought in (something Barrera cannot say). It's not "nuthugging" (god i hate that term)...it's just plain old knowledge.

[Del Coqui]

How come no one has mentioned Lupe Pintor?

[oldgringo]

MAB gets more credit for beating Juarez because he struggled with him the 1st time. The prevailing opinion before the 1st fight was that Juarez was in over his head, his big fights had been at 126, and would be dominated. After Rocky's strong showing the 1st time, his stock went up, and MAB's wins ultimately look better.

This is a good point. Marco under-estimated him in the first fight and took a poor approach to fighting him. I don't know if the difference in the second fight was more Marco being better prepared or Rocky coming in unfocused or what.

[Immortal_Inca]

Morales doesn't belong in the top 10 and Barrera's career isn't over yet but as of now he doesn't belong there. And how come nobody has mentioned Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez he belongs in the top 10 instead of Barrera.