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That's another point... I was amazed Toney went for strength and power conditioning in this last fight, like he thought he could hang in there with Peter on that level... totally wrong tactics, I'm surprised at a guy with his experience trying that.Comment
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Toney's speech
I am concerned about it. he slurred worse after the first Peter fight and recovered fully to the point that he sounded normal before the rematch.
He was slurring again after the rematch, and I think he actually was woozy from the shots he took. I hope he recovers like after the first fight but at some point it becomes brain damage.
He should not be fighting big men any more.Comment
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You forgot to log out, didn't you Anolak?Comment
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It wasn't even really a nice dream, the guy was a jerk and a poor sport and had karma against him when he stepped in there with Peter. His post fight interview proved he's second to Judah for worst sportsmen in boxing today.Comment
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Nice sentiments, but I disagree. James Toney had all the tools necessary to beat every HW in the division whence the time he stepped onto the stage at age 36. Unfortunately Toney has not been the same since the biceps/triceps tear. I had the opportunity to see Toney in a closed door sparring session before the McCline fight, and I'll tell you truly, I've never seen him look that good since his he was a super middlweight. He was pushing a LEGIT HW contender (who I can't name by name) back, and actually pressing the issue which he simply doesn't do anymore. He was going through sparring partners like Floyd Mayweather Jr does.The idea that a little guy who's basically "one of us" going up against a much bigger opponent and defeating them with skill alone is an appealing notion. Sure, Roy did it and Hopkins says he wants to do it - but both only had plans for a one-off special against limited opponents, Toney was prepared to go all the way.
And for a time, I believed he could do it... maybe.
It has to be said that it doesn't just appear to be his size that's let him down. If you look at the speed, reflexes and speech of Toney against Holyfield compared to last weekend it's like a completely different person. The guy's been hit harder than he's ever been hit before (which makes it bizarre when people say he's unknockoutable... how do we know when the most he'd been hit with before was a cruiserweight punch?) and it does seem to have caught up with him.
If you look at the guys Toney beat... Guinn, Holyfield, Ruiz... none of them were particularly big hitters, and none of them had a sizeable reach advantage, or one that he couldn't nullify. Sure, his skills before they erroded could have dealt with some opposition - Hell, he beat Peter the first time, right? - but there always would have been a step too far. Toney could have all the skill in the world, but expecting a 5"9 man with no KO power at the weight to beat giants like Little Klit or even Valuev is a step too far. It actually shows how the division has slightly improved, in that when Toney first came onto the scene there were titlists he could conceivably beat.
Toney just simply wasn't a heavyweight, and being able to outpoint an old Holyfield or an average Ruiz was never going to change that. But for a time, it looked as if it could, and it was a nice, pleasant dream.
So... anyone want flied lice?
If you watch James old fight's you'll always hear trainer Bill Miller telling Toney that he needs to get off first, and somewhere after his injury in the Booker fight Toney completely stopped doing that, whether it was to preserve himself, his lack of conditioning, or just laziness I don't know. You can't wait on your opponents and land a clean counter punch and expect the judges to ignore the 3 or 4 shoulder or back shots. Toney needed to press the issue Saturday night, get off first wait for Peter's return and counter, but he didn't. Furthermore he looked positively drained on Saturday night unable to muster any power on his shots for a sustained period. I can't give Peter too much credit because realistically he only improved his conditioning, and straightened out his shots a bit for Toney, that's great, but he didn't bring much else to the table. A lot of HW's could have beaten Toney on Saturday night, and it's sad considering what Toney could have and should have been: a heavyweight champion. Still though Toney arguably beat Rahman, Peter, Ruiz, & Holyfield in his short stint in the division and that's an incredible feat. I salute him.
He can and should still muster enough juice to fight one more time and capture the elusive 70th win.Comment
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He was "one of us" not for the average Joe but for (to borrow Trimble's phrase) the "smug oldtimers" on here who feel that he validated something about their boxing obsession. But the reality is that heavyweight fighting is still about big guys beating each other up, and just because a little guy can parry a few punches and move enough from his waist to keep from getting KO'd doesn't mean he's really fighting the fight. Even the 'robbery' of the first Peter fight was a myth, though I left that alone then, because while Toney did show superior technique that alone does not account for enough.
With that said I gained more respect for James Toney on Saturday night. Peter was whizzing vicious right hands just passed his nose and Toney stayed in there and boxed like a man. Allrespect due to him, he just is not and could not have been a heavyweight champ.Comment
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Yeah, he shouldn't be in there.
Look at the results. Toney's career went left when he shoulda' gone right.
No argument here.
His talent was useless against Toney, Rahman, ect.Comment
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