Toney at Heavyweight - it was a nice dream though, wasn't it?

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  • Wan Long Pong
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    • Nov 2006
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    #1

    Toney at Heavyweight - it was a nice dream though, wasn't it?

    The idea that a little guy who's basically "one of us" going up against a much bigger opponent and defeating them with skill alone is an appealing notion. Sure, Roy did it and Hopkins says he wants to do it - but both only had plans for a one-off special against limited opponents, Toney was prepared to go all the way.

    And for a time, I believed he could do it... maybe.

    It has to be said that it doesn't just appear to be his size that's let him down. If you look at the speed, reflexes and speech of Toney against Holyfield compared to last weekend it's like a completely different person. The guy's been hit harder than he's ever been hit before (which makes it bizarre when people say he's unknockoutable... how do we know when the most he'd been hit with before was a cruiserweight punch?) and it does seem to have caught up with him.

    If you look at the guys Toney beat... Guinn, Holyfield, Ruiz... none of them were particularly big hitters, and none of them had a sizeable reach advantage, or one that he couldn't nullify. Sure, his skills before they erroded could have dealt with some opposition - Hell, he beat Peter the first time, right? - but there always would have been a step too far. Toney could have all the skill in the world, but expecting a 5"9 man with no KO power at the weight to beat giants like Little Klit or even Valuev is a step too far. It actually shows how the division has slightly improved, in that when Toney first came onto the scene there were titlists he could conceivably beat.

    Toney just simply wasn't a heavyweight, and being able to outpoint an old Holyfield or an average Ruiz was never going to change that. But for a time, it looked as if it could, and it was a nice, pleasant dream.




    So... anyone want flied lice?
  • BrooklynBomber
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    • Oct 2004
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    #2
    Originally posted by Wan Long Pong
    The idea that a little guy who's basically "one of us" going up against a much bigger opponent and defeating them with skill alone is an appealing notion. Sure, Roy did it and Hopkins says he wants to do it - but both only had plans for a one-off special against limited opponents, Toney was prepared to go all the way.

    And for a time, I believed he could do it... maybe.

    It has to be said that it doesn't just appear to be his size that's let him down. If you look at the speed, reflexes and speech of Toney against Holyfield compared to last weekend it's like a completely different person. The guy's been hit harder than he's ever been hit before (which makes it bizarre when people say he's unknockoutable... how do we know when the most he'd been hit with before was a cruiserweight punch?) and it does seem to have caught up with him.

    If you look at the guys Toney beat... Guinn, Holyfield, Ruiz... none of them were particularly big hitters, and none of them had a sizeable reach advantage, or one that he couldn't nullify. Sure, his skills before they erroded could have dealt with some opposition - Hell, he beat Peter the first time, right? - but there always would have been a step too far. Toney could have all the skill in the world, but expecting a 5"9 man with no KO power at the weight to beat giants like Little Klit or even Valuev is a step too far. It actually shows how the division has slightly improved, in that when Toney first came onto the scene there were titlists he could conceivably beat.

    Toney just simply wasn't a heavyweight, and being able to outpoint an old Holyfield or an average Ruiz was never going to change that. But for a time, it looked as if it could, and it was a nice, pleasant dream.




    So... anyone want flied lice?
    I do agree with you on a matter and to be honest, I think people are underrating the HW division too much. There are lots of interesting fights out there to be made. Sure, there is not one decent American heavy and Toney was the last hope for unified American champ and he also appeals to many people, because for most of the people it is easy to associate themselves with an ******* rather then someone who holds hisself to higher standards. But honestly, if someone dreamt of Toney outboxing and even ko
    ing Wlad, they better wake up and apologise.

    Comment

    • neils7147933
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      • Sep 2004
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      #3
      Originally posted by Wan Long Pong
      The idea that a little guy who's basically "one of us" going up against a much bigger opponent and defeating them with skill alone is an appealing notion. Sure, Roy did it and Hopkins says he wants to do it - but both only had plans for a one-off special against limited opponents, Toney was prepared to go all the way.

      And for a time, I believed he could do it... maybe.

      It has to be said that it doesn't just appear to be his size that's let him down. If you look at the speed, reflexes and speech of Toney against Holyfield compared to last weekend it's like a completely different person. The guy's been hit harder than he's ever been hit before (which makes it bizarre when people say he's unknockoutable... how do we know when the most he'd been hit with before was a cruiserweight punch?) and it does seem to have caught up with him.

      If you look at the guys Toney beat... Guinn, Holyfield, Ruiz... none of them were particularly big hitters, and none of them had a sizeable reach advantage, or one that he couldn't nullify. Sure, his skills before they erroded could have dealt with some opposition - Hell, he beat Peter the first time, right? - but there always would have been a step too far. Toney could have all the skill in the world, but expecting a 5"9 man with no KO power at the weight to beat giants like Little Klit or even Valuev is a step too far. It actually shows how the division has slightly improved, in that when Toney first came onto the scene there were titlists he could conceivably beat.

      Toney just simply wasn't a heavyweight, and being able to outpoint an old Holyfield or an average Ruiz was never going to change that. But for a time, it looked as if it could, and it was a nice, pleasant dream.




      So... anyone want flied lice?
      It's posts like these that make me think you're not really a Chinaman who struggles with the English language...

      Comment

      • BmoreBrawler
        Undisputed Champion
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        • Jul 2006
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        #4
        Guinn is a bum, Holyfield is too old and is a bloated cruiser himself as is Ruiz.

        Toney's embarrasing loss to Rahman regardless of the gift draw and his inability to hurt peter in either fight showed he couldnt cut it(though technically he should be fighting for the title vs Maskaev by now seeing as how he beat peter in the first fight.

        Comment

        • joeytrimble
          zipper!
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          #5
          ruiz is a bloated crusier? ... or just old

          james toney coulda done anything he wanted at heavyweight he just decided to do that and let his ego get in his weigh

          i mean way

          Comment

          • Welter_Skelter
            Resistance Is Futile
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            • Aug 2005
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            #6
            Toney Took the idea of HEAVYweight too literaly.. Had he stayed around 215-220.. He could have been a REAL player... Instead he believed his on press hype and thought he could do it on presence alone...

            Comment

            • -Antonio-
              -Antonio-
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              #7
              Originally posted by Wan Long Pong
              The idea that a little guy who's basically "one of us" going up against a much bigger opponent and defeating them with skill alone is an appealing notion. Sure, Roy did it and Hopkins says he wants to do it - but both only had plans for a one-off special against limited opponents, Toney was prepared to go all the way.

              And for a time, I believed he could do it... maybe.

              It has to be said that it doesn't just appear to be his size that's let him down. If you look at the speed, reflexes and speech of Toney against Holyfield compared to last weekend it's like a completely different person. The guy's been hit harder than he's ever been hit before (which makes it bizarre when people say he's unknockoutable... how do we know when the most he'd been hit with before was a cruiserweight punch?) and it does seem to have caught up with him.

              If you look at the guys Toney beat... Guinn, Holyfield, Ruiz... none of them were particularly big hitters, and none of them had a sizeable reach advantage, or one that he couldn't nullify. Sure, his skills before they erroded could have dealt with some opposition - Hell, he beat Peter the first time, right? - but there always would have been a step too far. Toney could have all the skill in the world, but expecting a 5"9 man with no KO power at the weight to beat giants like Little Klit or even Valuev is a step too far. It actually shows how the division has slightly improved, in that when Toney first came onto the scene there were titlists he could conceivably beat.

              Toney just simply wasn't a heavyweight, and being able to outpoint an old Holyfield or an average Ruiz was never going to change that. But for a time, it looked as if it could, and it was a nice, pleasant dream.




              So... anyone want flied lice?

              Post of the day Anorak....errr Wan....

              Seriously though great ****in post.

              Comment

              • -Antonio-
                -Antonio-
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                #8
                Originally posted by joeytrimble
                ruiz is a bloated crusier? ... or just old

                james toney coulda done anything he wanted at heavyweight he just decided to do that and let his ego get in his weigh

                i mean way
                He never had a chance against Wlad. Hes too small. If he was REALLY in shape he would be around 210-215 at the most. That is way too small for a man a his height.

                Comment

                • !! Anorak
                  • Mar 2026
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by neils7147933
                  It's posts like these that make me think you're not really a Chinaman who struggles with the English language...
                  I noticed he spelt "eroded" with two Rs though... and I didn't even think he could pronounce "R". ****** iriot he is.

                  Comment

                  • !! Anorak
                    • Mar 2026
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by boxingguy1226
                    Post of the day Anorak....errr Wan....

                    Seriously though great ****in post.
                    Cheers man.

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