Why Gatti-Ward was a Shame for Boxing.

[Castillofan]

I was just looking back at footage of the Gatti-Ward fights and was struck by something. No, not my wife trying to get time to check her e-mail. Those fights were amazing; though if you really think about it, completely uncalled for.

Think about the fifth round of what I believe is the first fight. You know, that round; the one that has Manny Steward actually sounding like he's alive when he's commentating. Think of the last half a minute of the round, when Gatti lands some huge body punches to both sides of Ward. Those shots could be felt by anyone that saw them.

Then think about the combinations upstairs that Gatti goes to work with on Ward. Then remember that combination from Ward; the one where Gatti's head is hung out to dry and Ward just tees off on it with around six shots unanswered. Then they go at it with mainly Ward landing huge head shots.

That stands out to me; but those fights were full of moments like that. Three full fight's worth of nothing but sheer, brutal punishment round after bloody round. Those two must have been hospitalized after each one of those fights. Certainly, Ward had to retire afterwards; perhaps Gatti should have.

We talk about courage, but does anyone really think that those two fighters really wanted to go out there and do that to themselves? Does anyone doubt that we would never have seen those fights if boxing had any financial alternatives for either of them?

Those fighters should never have been in a position to have to fight those fights. And that's the issue; they had to fight those fights because they'd never seen the kind of money that HBO was offering. There had never been the kind of interest in either of them that would justify that kind of money. They found a niche that could have killed one or both of them.

It happens all the time: Fans and networks don't switch on until their enjoyment is assured. Nobody wanted to pay for Castillo-Corrales until they almost killed one another. Sure enough, the rematch was on pay-per-view. Even sooner, the third was; only Castillo, a hero in showtime's estimation, a true warrior, became a villain as soon as he couldn't make weight and stopped that fight from happening.

It's hypocrisy. Where are these so-called boxing fans? Where are they when it comes to feeding this sport and preventing fighters like Gatti and Ward, at the end of their careers, having to go through three of the most brutal fights in not only their but anyone's history because that was the only alternative?

This may sound strange coming from a boxing fan, but I find that barbaric. I find the attitudes that these supposed fans and the networks have towards fighters. These fighters are not superheroes with special powers they can conjure up for the amusement of the masses. This is real. Remember that when the broadcast ends and the channel gets changes, these guys are in the hospital.

[Welter_Skelter]

I was just looking back at footage of the Gatti-Ward fights and was struck by something. No, not my wife trying to get time to check her e-mail. Those fights were amazing; though if you really think about it, completely uncalled for.

Think about the fifth round of what I believe is the first fight. You know, that round; the one that has Manny Steward actually sounding like he's alive when he's commentating. Think of the last half a minute of the round, when Gatti lands some huge body punches to both sides of Ward. Those shots could be felt by anyone that saw them.

Then think about the combinations upstairs that Gatti goes to work with on Ward. Then remember that combination from Ward; the one where Gatti's head is hung out to dry and Ward just tees off on it with around six shots unanswered. Then they go at it with mainly Ward landing huge head shots.

That stands out to me; but those fights were full of moments like that. Three full fight's worth of nothing but sheer, brutal punishment round after bloody round. Those two must have been hospitalized after each one of those fights. Certainly, Ward had to retire afterwards; perhaps Gatti should have.

We talk about courage, but does anyone really think that those two fighters really wanted to go out there and do that to themselves? Does anyone doubt that we would never have seen those fights if boxing had any financial alternatives for either of them?

Those fighters should never have been in a position to have to fight those fights. And that's the issue; they had to fight those fights because they'd never seen the kind of money that HBO was offering. There had never been the kind of interest in either of them that would justify that kind of money. They found a niche that could have killed one or both of them.

It happens all the time: Fans and networks don't switch on until their enjoyment is assured. Nobody wanted to pay for Castillo-Corrales until they almost killed one another. Sure enough, the rematch was on pay-per-view. Even sooner, the third was; only Castillo, a hero in showtime's estimation, a true warrior, became a villain as soon as he couldn't make weight and stopped that fight from happening.

It's hypocrisy. Where are these so-called boxing fans? Where are they when it comes to feeding this sport and preventing fighters like Gatti and Ward, at the end of their careers, having to go through three of the most brutal fights in not only their but anyone's history because that was the only alternative?

This may sound strange coming from a boxing fan, but I find that barbaric. I find the attitudes that these supposed fans and the networks have towards fighters. These fighters are not superheroes with special powers they can conjure up for the amusement of the masses. This is real. Remember that when the broadcast ends and the channel gets changes, these guys are in the hospital.

Deep thoughts.. But I am very surprised you feel that way..

[The Coagulator]

I was just looking back at footage of the Gatti-Ward fights and was struck by something. No, not my wife trying to get time to check her e-mail. Those fights were amazing; though if you really think about it, completely uncalled for.

Think about the fifth round of what I believe is the first fight. You know, that round; the one that has Manny Steward actually sounding like he's alive when he's commentating. Think of the last half a minute of the round, when Gatti lands some huge body punches to both sides of Ward. Those shots could be felt by anyone that saw them.

Then think about the combinations upstairs that Gatti goes to work with on Ward. Then remember that combination from Ward; the one where Gatti's head is hung out to dry and Ward just tees off on it with around six shots unanswered. Then they go at it with mainly Ward landing huge head shots.

That stands out to me; but those fights were full of moments like that. Three full fight's worth of nothing but sheer, brutal punishment round after bloody round. Those two must have been hospitalized after each one of those fights. Certainly, Ward had to retire afterwards; perhaps Gatti should have.

We talk about courage, but does anyone really think that those two fighters really wanted to go out there and do that to themselves? Does anyone doubt that we would never have seen those fights if boxing had any financial alternatives for either of them?

Those fighters should never have been in a position to have to fight those fights. And that's the issue; they had to fight those fights because they'd never seen the kind of money that HBO was offering. There had never been the kind of interest in either of them that would justify that kind of money. They found a niche that could have killed one or both of them.

It happens all the time: Fans and networks don't switch on until their enjoyment is assured. Nobody wanted to pay for Castillo-Corrales until they almost killed one another. Sure enough, the rematch was on pay-per-view. Even sooner, the third was; only Castillo, a hero in showtime's estimation, a true warrior, became a villain as soon as he couldn't make weight and stopped that fight from happening.

It's hypocrisy. Where are these so-called boxing fans? Where are they when it comes to feeding this sport and preventing fighters like Gatti and Ward, at the end of their careers, having to go through three of the most brutal fights in not only their but anyone's history because that was the only alternative?

This may sound strange coming from a boxing fan, but I find that barbaric. I find the attitudes that these supposed fans and the networks have towards fighters. These fighters are not superheroes with special powers they can conjure up for the amusement of the masses. This is real. Remember that when the broadcast ends and the channel gets changes, these guys are in the hospital.

I agree with some of what you are saying. What we havent discussed is this. Lets say Im Ward or Gatti for that matter. I just finished up an outstanding fight. Gave the crowd their monies worth and I finally made a few bucks. Now here comes HBO or Showtime or the Promotions people and they say, hey look, one more time and we will pay you X...whatever X is and lets say X is enough for you and your kids and grandkids to live comfortably...I think each man has to decide what is right for them...so I take the money and I fight again...and I make a ton o money and after the fight they come again with even bigger dollars...enough for the grandkids to help their grandkids go to college...again each man has to make their own decision. What is enough money? What is enough beating? Only the fighter can make that decision and I am not sure I can blame the networks or promotors or their camps. These men made these decisions and that is what they decided...to take the money and the beatings for whatever reason they did. I blame them and I truely thank them for some of the best "wars" I have ever seen. I do see your point and its very valid but I am sure you can see it this way too. What would you have done...fighting for 25000 or fighting for 250,000 or 1 million...what would you do?

[lesterprettyboy]

Very good reply.As he said, each man will decide for himself...If enough money is on the table, and that amount is enough to give my wife and kids a good life, then I would jump at the chance.I would be willing to risk life and limb for the chance to give this to my family. ;P

[fiftyseven]

it's hard for me to tell what point you're trying to make exactly. are you saying that gatti and ward should have never have had to fight each other in the first place because it had potential to be a brutal fight or are you referring more to the rematches? if it's the latter, i don't agree with your point that they HAD to take those fights because of the money hbo was offering. yeah it was a big amount of money for both of them i'm sure but they knew ahead of time that it was going to be a repeat of the first fight so it comes down to is the almost certain possibility of taking an extreme amount of punishment worth the money to them and if the answer is yes then they take the fight. i don't think i would believe that arturo gatti would be poverty stricken and unable to provide for himself had him not taken the 2nd and 3rd ward fights.

i think boxers are aware of that fact that being in exciting fights will make them more money as much as they are aware that in order to be in exciting fights you will have to be in some gruling wars like the gatti ward fights. there are better examples of this kind of thing in the world than boxing.if they don't want to accept this reality, well then maybe they should consider a different profession. think of uneducated coal miners from small towns, due to their situation they have no choice but to take an extremely dangerous job in order to provide for their family. it's not like well the could take this money and work this very dangerous job or they could just find some less dangerous job because they can't. a large majority of boxers (not all perhaps) could make a living doing something else, they choose boxing for the potential fame, glory, big money or whatever reason. you can either make a million bucks by hitting another guy in the face more times then he hits you or you can study and work hard in school and become a lawyer or doctor or something, we all have choices.

[flipside]

I was just looking back at footage of the Gatti-Ward fights and was struck by something. No, not my wife trying to get time to check her e-mail. Those fights were amazing; though if you really think about it, completely uncalled for.

Think about the fifth round of what I believe is the first fight. You know, that round; the one that has Manny Steward actually sounding like he's alive when he's commentating. Think of the last half a minute of the round, when Gatti lands some huge body punches to both sides of Ward. Those shots could be felt by anyone that saw them.

Then think about the combinations upstairs that Gatti goes to work with on Ward. Then remember that combination from Ward; the one where Gatti's head is hung out to dry and Ward just tees off on it with around six shots unanswered. Then they go at it with mainly Ward landing huge head shots.

That stands out to me; but those fights were full of moments like that. Three full fight's worth of nothing but sheer, brutal punishment round after bloody round. Those two must have been hospitalized after each one of those fights. Certainly, Ward had to retire afterwards; perhaps Gatti should have.

We talk about courage, but does anyone really think that those two fighters really wanted to go out there and do that to themselves? Does anyone doubt that we would never have seen those fights if boxing had any financial alternatives for either of them?

Those fighters should never have been in a position to have to fight those fights. And that's the issue; they had to fight those fights because they'd never seen the kind of money that HBO was offering. There had never been the kind of interest in either of them that would justify that kind of money. They found a niche that could have killed one or both of them.

It happens all the time: Fans and networks don't switch on until their enjoyment is assured. Nobody wanted to pay for Castillo-Corrales until they almost killed one another. Sure enough, the rematch was on pay-per-view. Even sooner, the third was; only Castillo, a hero in showtime's estimation, a true warrior, became a villain as soon as he couldn't make weight and stopped that fight from happening.

It's hypocrisy. Where are these so-called boxing fans? Where are they when it comes to feeding this sport and preventing fighters like Gatti and Ward, at the end of their careers, having to go through three of the most brutal fights in not only their but anyone's history because that was the only alternative?

This may sound strange coming from a boxing fan, but I find that barbaric. I find the attitudes that these supposed fans and the networks have towards fighters. These fighters are not superheroes with special powers they can conjure up for the amusement of the masses. This is real. Remember that when the broadcast ends and the channel gets changes, these guys are in the hospital.

its a barbaric sport. you can even say it comes with the territory. ultimately its entertainment and people(me included) are more entertained with the gatti-ward type of fights rather than the barera juarez 2 or pbf baldomir fight.

[xcaret]

That trilogy was lame for me, just two bums fighting each other, doesnt really interest me, when its a fight like Castillo-Corrales who are real champions, thats a war.

[Phantasm]

That trilogy was lame for me, just two bums fighting each other, doesnt really interest me, when its a fight like Castillo-Corrales who are real champions, thats a war.

Actually, X, that is the reason why I like it more than Castillo-Corrales. These were two guys who laid it on the line, regardless of the record of the guy across the ring from them or if there was a belt or not. They were basically fighting for their legacy, immediate or long term. I obviously rank Castillo-Corrales above this fight (only because of the significance) but if I had to show a buddy who has never seen a fight and I had a choice between Gatti-Ward I or Castillo-Corrales I, I'd go with Gatti-Ward everytime. It was 2 guys fighting for something other than money or a belt.

[TyrantT316]

Yeah I am not sure if you're point is clear or strong in my opinion. Though I get where you are trying to go.

Thing is, there is just not telling HOW a fight will end up. There are MANY fights that are matched up as potential brutal FOTYs that don't live up. There are MANY fights that are potential bore fests that end up FOTY.

FOTY was expected for Gatti/Ward yes and I think fighters who have put in so much work, heart and dedication into their careers like they have deserve the big money. They were given an opportunity and they both went for it.

Boxing is a brutal sport and I don't care who you are and what fight it is, you're always at risk for a beating. This is what these guys sign up for and the risk they take. No man WANTS to go to the hospital with broken hands, ribs, bruises etc. But every many wants to take his opportunity when given. Each of them had every right to turn down the fight.

I don't want to see them hurt bad, but I also want to see them get the big money they deserve. Even if it means hard fights. Fighters fight for survival and money. If singing is your life and you're offered 1mil to perform at MSG, you take the opportunity. If Boxing is your life and you're offered 1million for a fight (not knowing how brutal or tactical it may be), you take it.

[BmoreBrawler]

boxing fans want big fights

boxer fans whine and moan about fighters' health all the time without treating them like adults.

Gatti/Ward was bad for boxing because everything after it has been a letdown.

I went to Gatti/Baldomir, and while that was hardly Gatti's most exciting fight, I may never go to another boxing match again because ive already seen the best boxing can offer as far as excitement. Gatti is the only guaruntee in boxing.