Muhammad Ali Responds To Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[Elroy1]

The point was they have no similarity in style so you have no argument to say Zuri was a bigger, stronger version of Ali. Your argument is invalid now since you are unable to name a fighter Brock beat that had a style similar to Ali.

That's a bull**** argument for a start.

Ali never faced anybody like Brock either.

The main difference being is that in Ali's day, nothing like Brock existed.

Today, plenty of guys like Ali exist but they are either amateur boxers or they have been knocked out long before they make it to TV.

Obviously!

And what is Muhammad's style?

He basically ran around and did not engage, and later in career, wrestled.

He fouled a lot.

He had no defence.

He threw fast punches in combination at range but didn't go to the body or work inside.

He had absolutely no power, very similarly to Lawrence (except Lawrence would have been more powerful against 70's bums)

He had no reflexes so once his running man game was done he became a punch bag.

So you can see that both boxers Ali and Lawrence were atleast similar sized, fast and powerless.

Lawrence had better economy (didn't run uselessly)

Lawrence has a better defence (his hands are atleast up)

I would say Zuri is the best possible match for Ali.

Unlike you though, I see this as a COMPLIMENT to Ali, that he could even be considered still 40 years later against a recent times pro boxer.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

That's a bull**** argument for a start.

Ali never faced anybody like Brock either.

The main difference being is that in Ali's day, nothing like Brock existed.

Today, plenty of guys like Ali exist but they are either amateur boxers or they have been knocked out long before they make it to TV.

Obviously!

And what is Muhammad's style?

He basically ran around and did not engage, and later in career, wrestled.

He fouled a lot.

He had no defence.

He threw fast punches in combination at range but didn't go to the body or work inside.

He had absolutely no power, very similarly to Lawrence (except Lawrence would have been more powerful against 70's bums)

He had no reflexes so once his running man game was done he became a punch bag.

So you can see that both boxers Ali and Lawrence were atleast similar sized, fast and powerless.

Lawrence had better economy (didn't run uselessly)

Lawrence has a better defence (his hands are atleast up)

I would say Zuri is the best possible match for Ali.

Unlike you though, I see this as a COMPLIMENT to Ali, that he could even be considered still 40 years later against a recent times pro boxer.

You said Ali had no reflexes lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezXbEL4hB7A

[Elroy1]

You said Ali had no reflexes lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezXbEL4hB7A

Oh come on man, that's the oldest one in the book and a totally busted myth.

Spare us all the highlight clips of Ali dodging punches!

Those of us who have seen his whole fights know that he was smashed from pillar to post in basically all of them!

Hell there was a reason he readily developed early onset Parkinson's.

There is also another way to describe Muhammad Ali's style in fact.

It was quote Muhammad Ali's daughter... "To allow his opponents to punch themselves out on his body until they ran out of stamina".

Unfortunately that style only works if your opponents are very weak.

And let me tell you that didn't come too much weaker than the opponents of Muhammad Ali!

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Oh come on man, that's the oldest one in the book and a totally busted myth.

Spare us all the highlight clips of Ali dodging punches!

Those of us who have seen his whole fights know that he was smashed from pillar to post in basically all of them!

Hell there was a reason he readily developed early onset Parkinson's.

There is also another way to describe Muhammad Ali's style in fact.

It was quote Muhammad Ali's daughter... "To allow his opponents to punch themselves out on his body until they ran out of stamina".

Unfortunately that style only works if your opponents are very weak.

And let me tell you that didn't come too much weaker than the opponents of Muhammad Ali!

His Parkinson's has not been proven to be caused by Boxing. While I think it didn't help, he would have gotten it anyway. Many boxers have taken far worse beatings (Jake Lamotta) and didn't have Parkinsons.

[juggernaut666]

His Parkinson's has not been proven to be caused by Boxing. While I think it didn't help, he would have gotten it anyway. Many boxers have taken far worse beatings (Jake Lamotta) and didn't have Parkinsons.

That doesnt even make sense ,just because someone else didnt aquire it that doesnt mean another wont ,at HW the hits are going to do more damage anyway you are comparing a 155 /165 pounder .You dont know if he would or wouldn't have got parkinsons or not ,no one does.I think its fair to say boxing with the less padded gloves is more reason than any.

[Elroy1]

His Parkinson's has not been proven to be caused by Boxing. While I think it didn't help, he would have gotten it anyway. Many boxers have taken far worse beatings (Jake Lamotta) and didn't have Parkinsons.

I am not saying that Parkinson is, or his was, a direct result of boxing but as you yourself declare it would not have helped and certainly I would further there is strong indication that the repeated blunt trauma to his head brought it on far earlier than otherwise.

To develop a dementia in your 30's is extremely rare! Coupled with being ONE of the biggest punch bags in the sport of all time, often seeming both uncapable and unwilling to defend himself, it'd be quite a coincidence for there to be no relation.

And before you push this "Ali had reflexes" issue further by claiming he wasn't ALWAYS a punch bag I would like to point out that all those opponents and times where Ali actually managed to escape punches ALWAYS involved...

- Far smaller and less reachy opponents which enabled Ali to back track and stay out of range making his opponent miss. A virtue of Ali's 6'3" frame being then taller than almost all of his opponents. But this involves minimal reflexes compared to slipping and when these fights are properly analysed you see that these opponents land at will on Ali as soon as they can get within range.

- Far slower opponents. Nut bags are famous for claiming that the 60's/70's era HW's are faster than today. This may be true overall but again, that's a confusion of the term "HW", because these guys were an average 190-200lbs and OF COURSE were faster of hand and foot on average than the average 230lb HW today. As soon as you compare those Ali opponents to today's CRUISERS though, they are all slow as molasses! And moreover, many of the TOP SuperHW's today are not only longer and heavier than any of Ali's opponents (and Ali himself) but also FASTER! And again, even these much slower opponents that Ali was able to slip and counter, STILL managed to land often enough on Ali in his so called prime years, and in the 70's again, at will!

Basically, Ali on occasion could evade punches from total rubbish opponents whom he enjoyed massive range advantage over or whom were incredibly slow for cruiser sized opponents, or both!

His MAIN success in his early career where nut bags credit him with reflexes is actually due to him being longer and faster than all his opponents and running around the ring out of range, basically doing a little dance to entertain the crowd.

If I want to see a dance I'll check out the ladies right!

[Mr.MojoRisin']

I am not saying that Parkinson is, or his was, a direct result of boxing but as you yourself declare it would not have helped and certainly I would further there is strong indication that the repeated blunt trauma to his head brought it on far earlier than otherwise.

To develop a dementia in your 30's is extremely rare! Coupled with being ONE of the biggest punch bags in the sport of all time, often seeming both uncapable and unwilling to defend himself, it'd be quite a coincidence for there to be no relation.

And before you push this "Ali had reflexes" issue further by claiming he wasn't ALWAYS a punch bag I would like to point out that all those opponents and times where Ali actually managed to escape punches ALWAYS involved...

- Far smaller and less reachy opponents which enabled Ali to back track and stay out of range making his opponent miss. A virtue of Ali's 6'3" frame being then taller than almost all of his opponents. But this involves minimal reflexes compared to slipping and when these fights are properly analysed you see that these opponents land at will on Ali as soon as they can get within range.

- Far slower opponents. Nut bags are famous for claiming that the 60's/70's era HW's are faster than today. This may be true overall but again, that's a confusion of the term "HW", because these guys were an average 190-200lbs and OF COURSE were faster of hand and foot on average than the average 230lb HW today. As soon as you compare those Ali opponents to today's CRUISERS though, they are all slow as molasses! And moreover, many of the TOP SuperHW's today are not only longer and heavier than any of Ali's opponents (and Ali himself) but also FASTER! And again, even these much slower opponents that Ali was able to slip and counter, STILL managed to land often enough on Ali in his so called prime years, and in the 70's again, at will!

Basically, Ali on occasion could evade punches from total rubbish opponents whom he enjoyed massive range advantage over or whom were incredibly slow for cruiser sized opponents, or both!

His MAIN success in his early career where nut bags credit him with reflexes is actually due to him being longer and faster than all his opponents and running around the ring out of range, basically doing a little dance to entertain the crowd.

If I want to see a dance I'll check out the ladies right!

Size doesn't matter in boxing unless it's a significant difference like 6 inches or something along those lines. Your whole argument has been based on a bunch of "what ifs". Calvin Brock never fought anyone like Ali. Calvin Brock only seems so skilled to you because he beat a bunch of bums. Look at Zuri Lawrence, he had 24W and 15L. That's a pretty bum record if you ask anyone who knows anything about boxing. Look at the other men he fought, most had bum records like I previously stated in other comments. You can look all this up on your own.

[Elroy1]

Size doesn't matter in boxing unless it's a significant difference like 6 inches or something along those lines. Your whole argument has been based on a bunch of "what ifs". Calvin Brock never fought anyone like Ali. Calvin Brock only seems so skilled to you because he beat a bunch of bums. Look at Zuri Lawrence, he had 24W and 15L. That's a pretty bum record if you ask anyone who knows anything about boxing. Look at the other men he fought, most had bum records like I previously stated in other comments. You can look all this up on your own.

I never said that Brock was so skilled. I think Brock was as skilled as he was ranked against his own eras criteria. I merely claimed that the total package that is Brock is greater than anything in the 70's!

Size (height as we're talking about here) is definitely important in boxing for somebody who knows how to use it!

And here I will give Ali some REAL credit for a rare occasion..

Muhammad Ali, like Larry Holmes, LEnnox Lewis and both Klitschko's were great at utilising their range advantages over their smaller opponents for success.

The longer the frame gives even greater range sure but also gives worse balance and less cadence too. A small advantage is height used properly, particularly when combined with a speed advantage can tell the difference.

The so-called Prime Ali (which I don't call prime myself) used these ingredients very well but the 70's Ali could not to such good effect.

The style and combination of qualities of Ali was no longer competitive in the era of Brock so it's no surprise that he couldn't fight one exactly. He never fought anybody like O'Sullivan either but that doesn't mean he wouldn't knock him out. I still think the closest thing was Lawrence.

I agree Brock didn't fight the strongest competition of his era but again that's HIS era, NOT Ali's!

Lawrence was a bummy record opponent, again I agree, but that's against HIS era, not Ali's!

Obviously Lawrences record would have been much better were it to have consisted of Ali era style opponents.

Likewise with his lack of power which he is famed for.

In Ali's times it was perfectly acceptable to be a weak puncher. In the 00's only the most elite skilled specimens like Byrd and Chambers could survive without a very hard punch.

So I'm not singing the praises of Lawrence today in the way you claim, of course I'm familiar with his record and that of his opponents. Suffice to say though that Lawrence WAS renowned for his boxing skills!

You can also look THAT up. His struggles and really bad record were due mainly to quote "His seeming inability to knock anybody out!" LOL

Which was basically Ali in his own time, except against extremely sick competition like Williams, and would be in total today.

[Suckmedry]

That's a bull**** argument for a start.

Ali never faced anybody like Brock either.

The main difference being is that in Ali's day, nothing like Brock existed.

Today, plenty of guys like Ali exist but they are either amateur boxers or they have been knocked out long before they make it to TV.

Obviously!

And what is Muhammad's style?

He basically ran around and did not engage, and later in career, wrestled.

He fouled a lot.

He had no defence.

He threw fast punches in combination at range but didn't go to the body or work inside.

He had absolutely no power, very similarly to Lawrence (except Lawrence would have been more powerful against 70's bums)

He had no reflexes so once his running man game was done he became a punch bag.

So you can see that both boxers Ali and Lawrence were atleast similar sized, fast and powerless.

Lawrence had better economy (didn't run uselessly)

Lawrence has a better defence (his hands are atleast up)

I would say Zuri is the best possible match for Ali.

Unlike you though, I see this as a COMPLIMENT to Ali, that he could even be considered still 40 years later against a recent times pro boxer.

you are a sad, pathetic man.

[Elroy1]

you are a sad, pathetic man.

Yeah how so?

I merely addressed a serious topic in a serious manner, sans all nutbaggery, just purely objectively.

Claiming Ali is about on the same level as Lawrence is both supported by all evidence AND flattering to BOTH boxers. Everybody wins with the truth!

You and this DagoWop guy have probably never even seen Lawrence fight. You should watch some and also take note of his poor record in conjunction with the ACTUAL good performances he can produce from a skills perspective.

What you clowns consider abuse is in fact appreciation!

Today's bums... Would have been yesterdays top contenders and champs!

^FACT!