Liston's take on the second Ali fight

[slicksouthpaw16]

Reading about boxers' backgrounds can be pretty fascinating. At times, I pick someone's name on boxrec that I never heard of before, and dig into that fighter's life.
Most often, it's the same story: a rough life before and after the ring career. However, interesting personalities.

Yeah its always great to do research, I do the same thing at times as well. I'm only a few pages into a book about Ali and Malcom X and I already learned things I haven't before. Like Ali and his brother calling the cops on his drunken father for roughing his mother up, Ali living in a rough, segregated side of Kentucky etc. I read a comment from someone on this forum a few days ago that actually called Ali's early life "privileged" lol

[The Old LefHook]

Effy has malt, mangelt and masht the opposition on this occasion, by burka.

[JAB5239]

Yeah its always great to do research, I do the same thing at times as well. I'm only a few pages into a book about Ali and Malcom X and I already learned things I haven't before. Like Ali and his brother calling the cops on his drunken father for roughing his mother up, Ali living in a rough, segregated side of Kentucky etc. I read a comment from someone on this forum a few days ago that actually called Ali's early life "privileged" lol

I've heard that as well about Ali. Privileged, middle class. As if that alleviates the discrimination he faced.

I always wondered about the racism Jack Johnson faced in a more turbulent time for blacks in America compared to Ali's time, which was certainly no walk in the park. By this I mean that listening to Johnson he seemed almost oblivious to racism as a child compared to Ali, even talking about playing with white children when he himself was a child.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Actually, that the knockdown turned into a KO shot are Nat Fleischer's and Joe Walcott's fault - and Ali's, who didn't return to neutral corner.

Walcott looked like he should've never been a referee judging by this fight, but you could make a case that Ali would've stopped Liston regardless AGAIN had the fight wore on. He was landing with more regularity than he did in the first fight up until that point, "dropped" Liston and was in his head IMO. Plus its clear to me that Ali's confidence was very high after the first fight. This time he didn't have to ease into it. He literally started off landing power shots.

[HOUDINI563]

Very true. In fight one Ali bounded about the ring in rounds 1 and 2 looking a bit nervous.

Fight 2 he began out of the box as a confident heavyweight champion of the world.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I've heard that as well about Ali. Privileged, middle class. As if that alleviates the discrimination he faced.

I always wondered about the racism Jack Johnson faced in a more turbulent time for blacks in America compared to Ali's time, which was certainly no walk in the park. By this I mean that listening to Johnson he seemed almost oblivious to racism as a child compared to Ali, even talking about playing with white children when he himself was a child.

Agreed. I think Johnson was even more bolder than Ali, If that's even possible lol Johnson had a fascination for white women, he mocked cops, mocked the champion as he was beating him etc. I have to get his autobiography to get actual details but the things he was doing at that time was unheard of back then.

[Ben Bolt]

you could make a case that Ali would've stopped Liston regardless

Liston was far from top shape that evening in '65. But even if he had been, Ali would always be the wrong opponent for him.

I've heard that as well about Ali. Privileged, middle class. As if that alleviates the discrimination he faced.

I always wondered about the racism Jack Johnson faced in a more turbulent time for blacks in America compared to Ali's time, which was certainly no walk in the park. By this I mean that listening to Johnson he seemed almost oblivious to racism as a child compared to Ali, even talking about playing with white children when he himself was a child.

In his 1975 memoir, Ali tells this story from the late 60s when he takes his fiancée, a black famous actress (have forgotten her name) on a car trip. Ali drives into this decayed New York neighborhood, steps out of the car and talks to people that have gathered around the car, and that are overjoyed to meet the celebrity.
However, the fiancée isn’t too pleased, and says to Ali something like “we don’t belong to these streets anymore”. Ali wrote, in that second his love for her was forever vanished. She had denied her roots.