Liston's take on the second Ali fight

[slicksouthpaw16]

I watched it again as well. It looks to me it's like Liston said. Sonny gets dropped and Walcott never has an opportunity to start the count as Ali is all over the place and won't go to a nuetral corner. At one point Liston goes to get up and flops down again as Ali comes his way again, still without a count started. When he does get up he doesn't look wobbly or hurt. If there were a fix, why would he even get up?

I agree with you on it not being fixed but disagree with Liston's take. I always thought Ali had deceptive power, but I don't think that right hand was enough to warrant that kind of reaction from Liston. Also on another watch, Liston was looking at the ground when he fell to the floor the 2nd time as Ali was being led to the corner by Walcott. Ali wasn't close to Liston when he fell. Plus Liston didn't just casually fall (after he rose to his knee), it's like he was exaggerating being hurt or dazed because his arms was stretched out. If what he said was true, why didn't he just casually take a knee?

[JAB5239]

Conspiracy theories have a tendency to grow bigger as years pass by.



Most likely the truth. And Ali would have won the fight anyway, because we know Liston wasn't in top shape that evening.

.......... agreed.

[slicksouthpaw16]

This may have been a "save face" statement from Liston IMO. He was obviously a very proud man.

[JAB5239]

I agree with you on it not being fixed but disagree with Liston's take. I always thought Ali had deceptive power, but I don't think that right hand was enough to warrant that kind of reaction from Liston. Also on another watch, Liston was looking at the ground when he fell to the floor the 2nd time as Ali was being led to the corner by Walcott. Ali wasn't close to Liston when he fell. Plus Liston didn't just casually fall (after he rose to his knee), it's like he was exaggerating being hurt or dazed because his arms was stretched out. If what he said was true, why didn't he just casually take a knee?

Ok guess we see it differently. The right landed flush by all accounts. You can see Sonny's back ripple from the shot and one of his feet come off the floor. It is what it is though.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Ok guess we see it differently. The right landed flush by all accounts. You can see Sonny's back ripple from the shot and one of his feet come off the floor. It is what it is though.

It definitely landed, what I'm questioning is Liston's reaction. He rolled over on the ground with his arms sprawled out on the canvas like he was out on his feet. Normally when you see someone react like that, they don't get up at all (especially since he rose up like nothing happened when the fight continues) which is why I feel it was exaggerated. He then got up, fell down again with his arms sprawled out a 2nd time. He stated that it was because Ali was near him but in the video, Ali is being led to the corner by Walcott at that time. The video contradicts his claim IMO. From my seat at least.

[Ben Bolt]

He was obviously a very proud man.

A black kid on his own in a racist US 1940s, after running away from home because his father regularly beat the sh *t out of him. Not much of a future, it seemed. Still, he managed to put his name into the history books.
He had reason to be proud.

[slicksouthpaw16]

A black kid on his own in a racist US 1940s, after running away from home because his father regularly beat the sh *t out of him. Not much of a future, it seemed. Still, he managed to put his name into the history books.
He had reason to be proud.

Definitely, I meant it in a complementary way. Lets just say I know all about racism lol

[slicksouthpaw16]

I just watched the post fight interview. Ali was asked "did you think you knocked him out" Ali replied "I have to watch the tape if you have it". Then he mocked Liston after he seen the footage of him falling back down. Doesn't sound like someone who thought he landed a crazy KO shot to me. Just my 2 cents

[Ben Bolt]

Definitely, I meant it in a complementary way. Lets just say I know all about racism lol

Reading about boxers' backgrounds can be pretty fascinating. At times, I pick someone's name on boxrec that I never heard of before, and dig into that fighter's life.
Most often, it's the same story: a rough life before and after the ring career. However, interesting personalities.

[Ben Bolt]

I just watched the post fight interview. Ali was asked "did you think you knocked him out" Ali replied "I have to watch the tape if you have it". Then he mocked Liston after he seen the footage of him falling back down. Doesn't sound like someone who thought he landed a crazy KO shot to me. Just my 2 cents

Actually, that the knockdown turned into a KO shot are Nat Fleischer's and Joe Walcott's fault - and Ali's, who didn't return to neutral corner.