Liston's take on the second Ali fight

[GhostofDempsey]

I've seen some of Liston's fights, but never seeked out interviews, etc. Did he not have much of a personality? Or is it just the wrong kind of personality?

Also, what was his fan base like?

Liston was soft-spoken and stoic. For all of the badass imagery of him, he was low-key. But he had a lot of bad press, an ex-con who slugged out cops and worked with the mob. Back in the 60's fans didn't want that. There was actually a bio written on him titled "Sonny Liston, the Champion Nobody Wanted". Several other bios have been written about him, "The Devil and Sonny Liston" is one of the better ones and deep dives a little further into the Ali fights.

[Eff Pandas]

As charismatic as he was, he was also brash, which made for good television. Don't think that television networks didn't see the success of pro wrestling having a heel for the fans to get worked up about. The same line of thinking was on the table when they pushed Ali, have a heel that fans will tune in to see, even if they hate him. It got people talking and got people watching. Similar to Floyd. No one was buying Floyd's fights to see him clinch and run to a 12 round boring decision. They wanted to see him lose. It wasn't until later on that Ali's mouth won over a fanbase that loved him for it.

It was the late 1950's & early 1960's not today. This was the Leave It To Beaver era. These folks weren't asking for a anti-hero or braggart. They hated that sh^t. It woulda been great foresight to know Ali would become what he became, but he wasn't a respected fighter cuz he ran around the ring in an era when that was considered ***** sh^t & he wasn't a likeable personality to the average viewer is the hole in this theory on why one would go to the trouble of fixing a fight for Ali.

Granted Sonny was MORE hated & respected less & folks, including many black folks, wanted him to not be allowed to box at all, let alone be champ, due to his mob ties & criminal history.

That said if ANYONE fixed this fight or even the first fight it'd have been the mob, not some TV network dork, but again no one who's throwing a fight gets back up to continue the fight like Sonny did.

[JAB5239]

He wasn't. You could tell as the fight ended with both on their feet. Liston was clearly acting badly.

He was fighting back after he had gotten up. Why would he do that if he was throwing the fight? Mind you, I don't think he was going to beat Ali either way, I just don't think he later down.

[JAB5239]

It was the late 1950's & early 1960's not today. This was the Leave It To Beaver era. These folks weren't asking for a anti-hero or braggart. They hated that sh^t. It woulda been great foresight to know Ali would become what he became, but he wasn't a respected fighter cuz he ran around the ring in an era when that was considered ***** sh^t & he wasn't a likeable personality to the average viewer is the hole in this theory on why one would go to the trouble of fixing a fight for Ali.

Granted Sonny was MORE hated & respected less & folks, including many black folks, wanted him to not be allowed to box at all, let alone be champ, due to his mob ties & criminal history.

That said if ANYONE fixed this fight or even the first fight it'd have been the mob, not some TV network dork, but again no one who's throwing a fight gets back up to continue the fight like Sonny did.

Exactly!!!!

[slicksouthpaw16]

I don't believe it was fixed, I just think Liston was a mentally beaten man at that point. I definitely don't think he was that hurt from the shot either. In the 1st fight, he couldn't beat Ali even when he tried to cheat and I feel like it likely broke him. Just my 2 cents.

[travestyny]

I don't believe it was a fix. If you are fixing a fight & you find yourself on the ground taking a count you don't get up & fight on. That's like rule #1 of fixing a fight ffs.

Exactly this!


Seems to me it was exactly as Sonny recalled.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I just re watched it, been years since I seen it. I change my opinion to "I have no clue" lol Not really sure what went on. Looked like a mass of confusion.

[JAB5239]

I just re watched it, been years since I seen it. I change my opinion to "I have no clue" lol Not really sure what went on. Looked like a mass of confusion.

I watched it again as well. It looks to me it's like Liston said. Sonny gets dropped and Walcott never has an opportunity to start the count as Ali is all over the place and won't go to a nuetral corner. At one point Liston goes to get up and flops down again as Ali comes his way again, still without a count started. When he does get up he doesn't look wobbly or hurt. If there were a fix, why would he even get up?

[Ben Bolt]

Conspiracy theories have a tendency to grow bigger as years pass by.

Sonny's side of the story...

Most likely the truth. And Ali would have won the fight anyway, because we know Liston wasn't in top shape that evening.

[HOUDINI563]

There is plenty of evidence that the bout was totally legit.

Read the SI article the week of the bout. Those that sat on the side of the ring where the punch could be seen clearly saw a ko blow. These included Patterson and Torres.

Frame by frame film analysis of the bout concluded a hard blow landed as Listons head and jaw twisted to one side and his lead foot lifted from the canvas.

If you watch after the bout is stopped and the ring filled with people Liston staggers to one side.

Listons trainer stated that after the bout in his dressing room Liston asked for smelling salts. Liston never asked for smelling salts before.

This bout and bout 1 were investigated by boxing commissions and no evidence of a fix was found.

This bout and bout 1 were investigated for 14 months by the FBI. It was abandoned as they could find no evidence of a fix.