Prime Langford vs. Prime Johnson

[Dynamite76]

Jack wins, might be a tad bit tougher than the initial matchup. But if he is focused on the goal, Jack takes Sam by decision.

[HOUDINI563]

Johnson wins and indeed this was the overwhelming thought from that time. Johnson was considered head and shoulders better than Langford, Jeanette or McVey.

[louis54]

Yes Johnson would whip him...no disgrace to sam

[Dr. Z]

Johnson was a mature heavyweight the lone time he meet Langford, who according his book, Sam Langford Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion, was just 20 years old and listed at 156 pounds the lone time he fought Johnson. Langford says he was in his 140's for the fight and had no real heavyweight experience. This fight hardly counts except to say Langford lasted the distance. The fight itself means nothing in terms of a prime for prime match up.

Johnson did sign a contract to meet Langford, but guess what? He pulled out of of it. No match for Langford, Jeannette or McVey from Johnson as champion despite numerous offers.

Examining Johnson in 1909, he was a suspect new Heavyweight Champion. its true. I have researched the results. He was TKO'd in an exhibition match vs Gunboat Smith as champion. Smith beat several of Johnson's opponents and more impressively than Johnson himself. He was the " great white hope " of the times and Johnson never gave him a title shot despite the he could be viewed as a #1 or #2 type of contender in his best years.

Then he was according to primary sources out boxed by Jack O'Brien in 1909 who was little more than a middleweight.

He was stung by Ross, who had no business being in a title fight.

He was famously floored and hurt by Ketchel.

1909 was quite a suspect year from the heavyweight champion of the world. What would a prime Sam Langford do to him from 1909-1915?

As time rolled on, Johnson could have been in some trouble according to sports writers at ring side in Flynn, was lucky to draw in 10 rounds vs Jim Battling Johnson, edged Moran in a fight where neither was paid, and ultimately beaten by Willard. Again, Langford in his prime years would have cleaned up on Johnson based on these results from 1912-1915.

Langford clearly beat better competition from 1909-1915.

"While Langford never won a world title, those in the fight game knew how good he was. Joe Jeanette and Harry Wills both rated Langford the best they ever fought. “Fireman” Jim Flynn, who faced off against Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gunboat Smith, and many others said, “The hardest hitter I ever faced was Langford.” Charley Rose, old time fight manager, rated Langford as the best heavyweight of all-time, while another well-known manager who saw Langford in action, Dan Morgan, said, “Sam would finish Joe Louis in about six or seven rounds.” Sportswriter Jimmy Cannon quoted Jack Dempsey as saying, “Sam probably would have knocked me out.” Author Mike Silver, who wrote The Ring Boxing Almanac, stated that Langford was, “Quite possibly the greatest fighter who ever lived … [his] every move embodied the technique of a studied master boxer.” Trainer Teddy Atlas rates Langford as, pound-for-pound, the fifth best boxer of all time."

https://www.thefightcity.com/fight-c...boston-terror/

IMO, prime for prime ,Johnson who was floored, hurt, outboxed and full of excuses ( 1909-1915 ) loses to a prime Sam Langford. On Film, Langford was a very strong, compact man. He threw KO punches in both hands, was never controlled in a clinch and could fight 20 rounds, no problem. A swarming attacker type with usually long arms ( 74" reach ) He'd catch up to Johnson, force an exchange and eventually win. Stopping a prime Langford is very unlikely.

[travestyny]

Johnson did sign a contract to meet Langford, but guess what? He pulled out of of it. No match for Langford, Jeannette or McVey from Johnson as champion despite numerous offers.

LMAO. Yet if we would take your word as gospel, we'd be believing Johnson was down vs. Langford.


Did you find any proof of a contract that Johnson broke for the May 1909 fight yet, or is that just more of we should believe you because you say it's so?

[HOUDINI563]

So much misinformation by Mendoza (aka Dr Z).

He hates Johnson because “he hit his wife”. Of course ignoring during those times this was a common event for many married women.

Point by point he picks a complete outlier and projects this as his conclusion.

Clear example is Johnson Flynn. All rounds are available on Historic Films website and every single round is one sided. Aside from body blows here and there that were all muffled by Johnson Flynn landed nothing. Johnson won every round. The bout was stopped by police because Flynn was being beaten to a pulp.

Same idea with Ross and Kaufman. O’Brien ran like a thief to last with Johnson over six rounds. The consensus was a DRAW not an O’Brien win. However O’Brien was rated for many decades as one of if not the greatest of light heavyweights. He was no pushover in a short bout vs any opponent.

I can go on and on but why waste energy? The posters aim is to deceive at all costs.

[Willie Pep 229]

The Flynn fight was stopped by the police?

I thought that was the Burns fight; I thought the referee stopped the fight by DQing Flynn.

[Dr. Z]

LMAO. Yet if we would take your word as gospel, we'd be believing Johnson was down vs. Langford.


Did you find any proof of a contract that Johnson broke for the May 1909 fight yet, or is that just more of we should believe you because you say it's so?

Did you find where Jeannette signed and what he was getting, plus I want to see the photo as that is your out on Johnson's inactions! Produce them please.

I posted proof of Johnson's results, you ignore it like the plague.

As for Johnson's performances, which one do you disagree, with from the post on 02-03-2021 09:40 AM?

Um, that would be none of them because they happened and he looked suspect, and you know it. You aren't going there.

I too can post numerous press articles and act as if that mattered on fights that never happened. That is your game.

How a can Johnson, a fighter with many suspect results is going to beat Langford in his prime is up for debate. According to fighters of the times in Jeanette and Harry Wills, Johnson would not. They think the prime Langford was better. You'll probably ignore their words too.

I am not sure if Johnson was down vs Langford, the estimated 20 year old, and listed at 156 pound fighter with little experience at heavyweight. Probably not, but Langford said so, and so did the French press, possible to get Johnson in a real fight, which as we know he ignored.

[Dr. Z]

The Flynn fight was stopped by the police?

I thought that was the Burns fight; I thought the referee stopped the fight by DQing Flynn.

You are correct. The Burns fight was halted by the police, NOT the Flynn fight.

The poster HOUDINI563 doesn't have a clue, nor has he seen 3 fights he's talking bout. I use primary sources here. I posted known writers and boxing people's opinion at the fight who sat ringside to watch Johnson vs Flynn. You can believe the people who were there or not, it's up to you.

I can say Flynn was behind on points, but that means nothing in a 45 round marathon fight, and was in fine working condition when the ref DQ'd him. Willard was also likely down on point after 9 rounds, who won that fight? See my point?

[travestyny]

Did you find where Jeannette signed and what he was getting, plus I want to see the photo as that is your out on Johnson's inactions! Produce them please.

I posted proof of Johnson's results, you ignore it like the plague.

As for Johnson's performances, which one do you disagree, with from the post on 02-03-2021 09:40 AM?

Um, that would be none of them because they happened and he looked suspect, and you know it. You aren't going there.

I too can post numerous press articles and act as if that mattered on fights that never happened. That is your game.

How a can Johnson, a fighter with many suspect results is going to beat Langford in his prime is up for debate. According to fighters of the times in Jeanette and Harry Wills, Johnson would not. They think the prime Langford was better. You'll probably ignore their words too.

I am not sure if Johnson was down vs Langford, the estimated 20 year old, and listed at 156 pound fighter with little experience at heavyweight. Probably not, but Langford said so, and so did the French press, possible to get Johnson in a real fight, which as we know he ignored.

This is very simple. You keep ducking every question that I ask you because you know it will prove that you have no legs to stand on. Let me prove that simply right now.

If Johnson and Jeannette didn't sign to fight, then what was it that the NY commission canceled?

Your answer? Try not to keep ducking. I'm tired of answering all your questions for you to just duck me and repeat the same bs.

When I have an entire article from Jeannette's manager which revealed the fight was signed and yet you are still on this lets see the contract, not to mention blatantly ignoring my invitation to debate this by going question for question, it's easy to tell that you are biased and have no confidence that you can back up your claims. You can't find me one quotation that says JJ signed for the May 1909 bout. We already know the proof they showed mentioned a Feb bout that all sides agreed will be canceled. You have nothing.

But don't let that make you keep ducking my question. If Jeannette didn't sign, why did his manager reveal he did. I'll wait....