is Golovkin a top all time 15 great at middleweight?

[QueensburyRules]

Yeah, its hard to accept that on face value when you consider that he had been fighting for MW titles and forcing awkward catchweights so close to the MW limit before the G fight. Heck, he even fought at a limit above the MW limit before the G fight.

Then, immediately after fighting G, he went up a weight class; showing that he probably had the capability to fight at that weight beforehand.

The fact is, since 2017 he has fought the majority of his fights above the MW limit.

- -Cotto forced the 1st 155 lb catchwt, so Canelo adopted it as his own in order to lure TBE TUE for a jrmiddle rematch or a middle title challenge. At this pt, I doubt he wants to return to 160 unless a $50mil payday that don't exist at that wt.

[DeeMoney]

- -Cotto forced the 1st 155 lb catchwt, so Canelo adopted it as his own in order to lure TBE TUE for a jrmiddle rematch or a middle title challenge. At this pt, I doubt he wants to return to 160 unless a $50mil payday that don't exist at that wt.

I doubt he drops down too, he's a great fighter and I think he makes more $$ and fights at SMW. But he clearly was capable of making 160 long before the G fight.

[QueensburyRules]

I doubt he drops down too, he's a great fighter and I think he makes more $$ and fights at SMW. But he clearly was capable of making 160 long before the G fight.

- -Never stated otherwise.

More clearly he was quite capable of retiring wealthy beyond belief before the first GGG fight .

See how that works?

[The plunger man]

Cotto was never really a true middleweight, he only beat Martinez because of the bum knee. Canelo wasn't either at first, it took time for him to grow into one. Sturm and Saunders were never P4P types.

My point is you can't complain about Golovkin not having depth of competition but then ignore that he refused to fight the one P4P guy that was willing to face him. You can't be so quick to blame others for "avoiding" him then completely ignore when he himself avoided.

I did say as a middleweight...ward was not a middleweight.
And I did specifically say he makes top 10 and would have been higher if he had some P4P names on his record.
I don’t know what your argument is....are you saying golovkin don’t break the top 10.
He did offer to fight ward at 164 which was halfway and yiu disregard that....and yet when canelo did it you pretty much went down on your knees and took him all the way down.
Look let’s be fair you have an agenda against golovkin and it don’t matter who he beat as a middleweight you would still find fault.
As a middleweight I will go on record and say that the only fighters who could beat him were Robinson , hagler , monzon , Jones and possibly greb.
Golovkin in his prime was a beast and I actually watched a short documentary on him today.
Arguably he is still unbeaten because he beat canelo twice but never got the decision.
Take your angry glasses off and watch how good golovkin was 10 years ago

[The plunger man]

- -It ain't about me, plungy.

The time lines of events are irrefutable, but, not surprisingly, you ain't.

Canelo made a statement saying he needed at least a year to grow into a middleweight and yet he was middleweight champion lol......he even tried dictating what weight the middleweight championship was going to be and wanted it less than 160.
He gave up the because golovkin was mandatory and the WBC were forced into stripping him.

[ShoulderRoll]

I did say as a middleweight...ward was not a middleweight.

So it's ok that Golovkin didn't fight Ward because he wasn't a middleweight. Then that means it's ok if Cotto and Canelo didn't fight Golovkin either, since they weren't true middleweights at the time. It's the same logic, right?

He did offer to fight ward at 164 which was halfway and yiu disregard that....

Golovkin's team boasted that they would fight anyone from 154 to 168. Then when Ward spoke up they suddenly changed their tune and the fight had to be at 164, effectively stopping the bout from happening.

These are all things that if you are an objective person you can't overlook.

[DeeMoney]

So it's ok that Golovkin didn't fight Ward because he wasn't a middleweight. Then that means it's ok if Cotto and Canelo didn't fight Golovkin either, since they weren't true middleweights at the time. It's the same logic, right?



Golovkin's team boasted that they would fight anyone from 154 to 168. Then when Ward spoke up they suddenly changed their tune and the fight had to be at 164, effectively stopping the bout from happening.

These are all things that if you are an objective person you can't overlook.

I'm not going to act like Golovkin went around chasing the best opponents in all weight classes. He wanted to do something at 160 and essentially painted himself into a corner that has taken some shine off his career.

That being written, I do think there are some material differences between him not moving up to fight Ward, and Canelo marinating on moving up to fight GGG.

1) I think Canelo winning a Middleweight title, and then defending said title, puts a bit more pressure for him to actually move up and fight at the MW limit. For whatever reason he held the MW belt, and defended it at a catchweight, he still was a MW champion who defended the title. To simultaneously come out and say he was not ready to fight at MW is different than G v Ward; as G wasn't laying claim to anything above 160.

2) Canelo has gone on to fight at MW, & SMW, and above. He has shown that his body is and was capable of being a successful full fledged MW. G has fought one fight above 160 still. Canelo has shown he's more of a SMW than MW possibly. It doesn't appear that GGG has any desire of moving up he is a MW. Canelo has moved up, so the wait game (in regards to the weight game) has some difference.

Of course, I think this is mostly irrelevant to how good any of these fighters are at 160. Which is the crux of the discussion.

[ShoulderRoll]

I'm not going to act like Golovkin went around chasing the best opponents in all weight classes. He wanted to do something at 160 and essentially painted himself into a corner that has taken some shine off his career.

That being written, I do think there are some material differences between him not moving up to fight Ward, and Canelo marinating on moving up to fight GGG.

1) I think Canelo winning a Middleweight title, and then defending said title, puts a bit more pressure for him to actually move up and fight at the MW limit. For whatever reason he held the MW belt, and defended it at a catchweight, he still was a MW champion who defended the title. To simultaneously come out and say he was not ready to fight at MW is different than G v Ward; as G wasn't laying claim to anything above 160.

2) Canelo has gone on to fight at MW, & SMW, and above. He has shown that his body is and was capable of being a successful full fledged MW. G has fought one fight above 160 still. Canelo has shown he's more of a SMW than MW possibly. It doesn't appear that GGG has any desire of moving up he is a MW. Canelo has moved up, so the wait game (in regards to the weight game) has some difference.

Of course, I think this is mostly irrelevant to how good any of these fighters are at 160. Which is the crux of the discussion.

In my opinion Canelo was still figuring out if he could be effective campaigning at 160 and grow into the weight. Similar to how he tested the waters at 168 and then 175 later on.

Once he decided to take the plunge he was more than willing to fight and then rematch Golovkin.

At 160 not much separates those two at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Canelo a top 10 all-time great at middleweight so I won't call Golovkin one either.

Top 15? I would have to sit down and think about it.

[DeeMoney]

In my opinion Canelo was still figuring out if he could be effective campaigning at 160 and grow into the weight. Similar to how he tested the waters at 168 and then 175 later on.

Once he decided to take the plunge he was more than willing to fight and then rematch Golovkin.

At 160 not much separates those two at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Canelo a top 10 all-time great at middleweight so I won't call Golovkin one either.

Top 15? I would have to sit down and think about it.

I agree Canelo and GGG are basically even (in regards to in the ring ability). The issue I find at rating Canelo at MW is sample size. He literally has only fought 3 fights at the MW limit.

I feel the same way about Hearns when people talk about how good he was at MW. I think you need a bit more of work to evaluate at a given weight before you can make an accurate analysis about ability at a specific weight.

That isnt to write we couldnt extrapolate a pretty accurate assessment, but if we are being fair more sample size is required.

[The plunger man]

In my opinion Canelo was still figuring out if he could be effective campaigning at 160 and grow into the weight. Similar to how he tested the waters at 168 and then 175 later on.

Once he decided to take the plunge he was more than willing to fight and then rematch Golovkin.

At 160 not much separates those two at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable calling Canelo a top 10 all-time great at middleweight so I won't call Golovkin one either.

Top 15? I would have to sit down and think about it.

as soon as canelo won the world title at middleweight that’s makes it fair game for golovkin.....in my opinion i think it’s a fair offer to meet ward halfway ...why not it’s what canelo wanted to do with his 155 bull****....and going back to what I said this is about golovkin and his middleweight reign...it has nothing to do with 168 or ward....it’s a different division so why are you so hung up on the ward fight....hagler never moved up his whole career and he built his legacy from fighting smaller guys ....so what’s your point lol
As I said golovkin is a top 10 P4P middleweight and in his prime he beats most of them except for the ones I named before.
He has beaten the best of his era and you just don’t like it.
He didn’t lose to canelo and most people think that.
One of the best amateur careers ever and an Olympian.
Get over it