People rag on Archie Moore but overtalk Cleveland Williams

[uncle ben]

I have noticed this. People will say that Moore was just a light heavyweight but will beef up Williams as making him into some unbeatable hard punching Goliath who could only ever lose to Ali and Liston.

I think this is done as a dig against Marciano TBH. Moore beat much better opposition at heavyweight than Williams ever beat. Williams was a decent contender, but he was about Mike Weaver level. In fact, you can argue that Weaver has a better resume.

Moore was a better HEAVYWEIGHT than Williams, TBH and an all around better fighter.

[GhostofDempsey]

Williams career was derailed by a gunshot wound during his prime that almost killed him. He was never the same after that. Ali got him post gunshot wound.

[Rick Taylor]

Williams career was derailed by a gunshot wound during his prime that almost killed him. He was never the same after that. Ali got him post gunshot wound.

do you have any proof of these claims?

[Willie Pep 229]

New York Times September 15th, 1999

Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who fought Muhammad Ali for the world heavyweight boxing championship in November 1966, two years after a shooting by a policeman left Williams with one kidney and a bullet lodged near his hip, died last Friday in Houston. He was 66.


Full Article

[The Old LefHook]

It is well known he was almost kilt. Also, Foreman tolt tales of the Big Cat's legendree power. He was a proud black warrior.

[NChristo-]

Because Moore didn't hit heavyweight until the latter part of his career and Williams is a career Heavy ?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Because Moore didn't hit heavyweight until the latter part of his career and Williams is a career Heavy ?

Moore was at his best, though, as a Heavyweight. The problem Moore faced was that as he got better, his competition got bigger.


Williams' legacy supports the arguemtns of Liston and Ali's greatness. He's the only fighter that those two fought whom people feel would succeed in other eras, especially more modern ones. I don't dispute that he was quite good, and a hard puncher. But his ability is often exaggerated.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It is well known he was almost kilt. Also, Foreman tolt tales of the Big Cat's legendree power. He was a proud black warrior.

Foreman compared Calzaghe to Hank Armstrong...

[Rusty Tromboni]

Williams career was derailed by a gunshot wound during his prime that almost killed him. He was never the same after that. Ali got him post gunshot wound.

He was fairly far along when that happened. I don't dispute that in a different era he could have done more: earlier, his physical ability would take him further; later, he'd be better coached and his career better navigated. But he did all he was going to accomplish. A big puncher who couldn't control his nerves.

[them_apples]

do you have any proof of these claims?

I don't know if Williams was ever that good, but Foreman sparred him and said he did punch very hard. And yeah he did take a gunshot wound