Trivial information: The HW Title changing hands via a decision.

**HOUDINI563** · 07-12-2020, 08:02 PM

Louis and Ali were the challenger vs Charles and Frazier. Louis had already retired and Charles won the title via beating Walcott. Ali had retired in 1970 to make room for Frazier’s bout with Ellis for the title.

Norton was never heavyweight champion so Holmes win was not for the title. Holmes lineal claim is different from all others. He is champion because of his wins vs Norton, Shavers and the unretired Ali. Literally cleaning out the leading contenders as well as the former champion. We then entered the very splintered heavyweight world where the boxing organizations were much more intent to milk multiple champions than unify. The WBA tournament involving second raters predominantly is a testament to this.

**QueensburyRules** · 07-13-2020, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by HOUDINI563

Louis and Ali were the challenger vs Charles and Frazier. Louis had already retired and Charles won the title via beating Walcott. Ali had retired in 1970 to make room for Frazier�s bout with Ellis for the title.

Norton was never heavyweight champion so Holmes win was not for the title. Holmes lineal claim is different from all others. He is champion because of his wins vs Norton, Shavers and the unretired Ali. Literally cleaning out the leading contenders as well as the former champion. We then entered the very splintered heavyweight world where the boxing organizations were much more intent to milk multiple champions than unify. The WBA tournament involving second raters predominantly is a testament to this.

- -Mo' nonsensical Nonsuch from U.

Ali I unretired vs Frazier I just like he did vs Holmes.

YOU do not keep the lineal title.

Noone does.

NOONE!!!

**HOUDINI563** · 07-13-2020, 05:28 AM

Please show where I wrote Ali was still champion when he faced Holmes? I didn’t.

Holmes was the new champion upon the strength of beating all three.

**Bundana** · 07-13-2020, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Willie Pep 229

The lineal HW Championship Title has changed hands via a decision only 7 or 8 times. Most of them recent.

Dempsey-Tunney '26 (10) UD
Braddock - Baer '35 (15)
Holmes-Spinks '85 (15) UD
Bowe-Holyfield '92 (12) UD
Hoylfield-Moorer '94 (12) MD
Foreman-Briggs '97 (12) MD
Klitschko-Fury '15 (12) UD

Am I missing any?

I think you're missing Sharkey beating Schmeling on points in '32.

**Willie Pep 229** · 07-13-2020, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Bundana

I think you're missing Sharkey beating Schmeling on points in '32.

Yep! -- Thanks!

**Marchegiano** · 07-13-2020, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by QueensburyRules

- -Mo' nonsensical Nonsuch from U.

Ali I unretired vs Frazier I just like he did vs Holmes.

YOU do not keep the lineal title.

Noone does.

NOONE!!!

Corbett did.

**Anthony342** · 07-13-2020, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Willie Pep 229

The lineal HW Championship Title has changed hands via a decision only 8 or 9 times. Most of them recent.

Dempsey-Tunney '26 (10) UD
Schmeling-Sharkey '32 (15)
Braddock - Baer '35 (15)
Holmes-Spinks '85 (15) UD
Bowe-Holyfield '92 (12) UD
Hoylfield-Moorer '94 (12) MD
Foreman-Briggs '97 (12) MD
Klitschko-Fury '15 (12) UD

Am I missing any?

One elimination bout for the title ended in a decision.

Charles- Walcott '49 (15) UD

Outliers:

CW has Joe Louis as the challenger in Charles-Louis '50

CW has Muhammad Ali as the challenger in Frazier-Ali '71.

Some may argue the other way for both.

Does Larry Holmes claim the title via a decision over Ken Norton or is it when he stops Ali that he become champion? I went with lineal and the Ali fight.

You mean the second Holyfield-Bowe fight right? Wasn't their first fight also for the lineal title, where Bowe won by decision?

**Willie Pep 229** · 07-13-2020, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Anthony342

You mean the second Holyfield-Bowe fight right? Wasn't their first fight also for the lineal title, where Bowe won by decision?

You are correct , both fights 1 and 2 fit the bill; thanks

**Anthony342** · 07-14-2020, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Willie Pep 229

You are correct , both fights 1 and 2 fit the bill; thanks

Wow cool, I actually remembered something historical. Nice Willie Pep boxing card pic. Were boxing sports cards common?

Trivial information: The HW Title changing hands via a decision.