When Boxing and Prize Fighting were still thought to be different.

[Willie Pep 229]

Madison Square Garden (1) "Great Roman Hippodrome" January 19th, 1885

John L. Sullivan v. Paddy Ryan

Billed as an "Illustrated Lecture" (4 Rounds)

Back Story: Down on his financial luck Paddy Ryan was done a kind by the Great John L. Sullivan who staged for his opponent/friend a payday opportunity at the Garden.

New York City would allow the 'exhibition" but warned that no 'fighting' would be tolerated. (pre-Horton)**

For half a round the two greats tried to 'exhibit' their skills, but when Ryan clipped Sullivan a little too hard a 'fight' broke out.'

New York Times: Sullivan and Ryan meet

P.S. The events at the ticket window paints a vivid picture of the true ambiance surrounding prize fights circa 1880.

** The Horton Law was one year away; in 1885 'fighting' was still prohibited in New York under the criminal code, as a misdemeanor (assault). One source argues that the fight was only raided because the promoters failed to 'pay respect' to Honest John Kelly (Tammany Hall Politician).

[billeau2]

Madison Square Garden (1) "Great Roman Hippodrome" January 19th, 1885

John L. Sullivan v. Paddy Ryan

Billed as an "Illustrated Lecture" (4 Rounds)

Back Story: Down on his financial luck Paddy Ryan was done a kind by the Great John L. Sullivan who staged for his opponent/friend a payday opportunity at the Garden.

New York City would allow the 'exhibition" but warned that no 'fighting' would be tolerated. (pre-Horton)**

For half a round the two greats tried to 'exhibit' their skills, but when Ryan clipped Sullivan a little too hard a 'fight' broke out.'

New York Times: Sullivan and Ryan meet

P.S. The events at the ticket window paints a vivid picture of the true ambiance surrounding prize fights circa 1880.

** The Horton Law was one year away; in 1885 'fighting' was still prohibited in New York under the criminal code, as a misdemeanor (assault). One source argues that the fight was only raided because the promoters failed to 'pay respect' to Honest John Kelly (Tammany Hall Politician).

That narrative and set up might well come from the fencing schools that James Figg came out of prior to boxing. With bladed weapons there really is no "light contact." to speak of... One could certaintly fence, provided there was limited movement, gear to protect and a judge who could explain why a point was awarded... Or one could exhibit how to use the weapons. Generally one would learn a lot more being instructed in the fundamentals...

What is interesting and what proves this relationship to me is nobody considered an exhibition bout with light contact. No fighting was the rules! Boxing even went so far as to make bigger mufflers (gloves) and had certain policies...Like for example, the more skilled fighter going easy, etc.