Ranking justifications

[Bundana]

I did just point it out in the Wlad-Bowe thread but you might actually have something enlightening to say about it and it does pertain to this post. I just wanted to preamble to be clear I'm just being curious, not trying to start an argument or be disrespectful to you in anyway.



Wladimir Klitschko punched himself in the face. He then lost to Tyson Fury who had also punched himself in the face.

For the most part I've said boxers box the way they do because of the eras they live in and those era feature certain styles because of the atmosphere surrounding it.

Grossly oversimplified; bare knuckle didn't feature a lack of defense because the men were too ****** or too slow but rather because in their time it was not manly to retreat. The only manly form of defense was guard and parry and such, not moving and eluding.


That said, I have to say I've been part of this boxing is not what it used to be narrative myself, well, in the HW division I have anyway.

You have guys who don't do what their grandads did. I can forgive this and write it off as era specific stylization. Lots of times when they do actually do stuff that's more than basic punching and positioning it looks pretty bad from the outside. I can justify that by saying well they are larger than Ali and Holmes and such, but, when they punch themselves in the face....when more than one, when the best of the best of an era punches themselves in the face, that's harder for me to ignore.

Maybe I'm just ignorant and the great Joe Louis did punch himself, but, I don't know of any other era where this was a thing and I think that's because the last time HW boxing was so limited was when the *******s controlled boxing and filmed fights were not as common. What I mean to say is the last time guys were bad enough to think maybe they socked themselves film wasn't there to capture it.

Seems pretty telling. They are mostly out of shape. They are mostly basic fighters with very little range in their skill sets and when they try to be more than basic they tend to look a bit ass and if you deny all that what do you tell yourself when the man punches himself then loses and the new man is a man who punches himself too? **** happens? Too much into a funny anecdote? Or maybe the HWs today are over exaggerated bums.

I have just read your post over in the Wlad-Bowe thread - and I have to say, that I can follow you a long way!

I remember watching Wlad vs Povetkin, and was appalled to see how Wlad was allowed to grab, clinch and spoil his way through all 12 rounds. And against an opponent who really posed no danger to him! I couldn't understand, why that was necessary. It was such a disgraceful performance, that I never really forgave him - though I do think he redeemed himself somewhat in his last fight against Joshua, where he at least manned up and gave it a shot.

Overall I'm not a big fan of the heavyweights these days - though I don't think it will be mostly remembered as the era, where boxers punched themselves in the face! That's too harsh, I believe. Sure, silly things happen every now and then, but I don't think that is representative of all of today's boxing.

People may not like Fury, but I don't think he's a complete bum, whose biggest contribution to boxing history is a clip, where he hits himself in the face. Wouldn't you agree, that there's a bit more to him than that - or is it all bad, in your opinion?

[QueensburyRules]

My point is, that you can't rank boxers by computer. No matter how good your intentions, and how much work you put into it, it simply doesn't work.

BoxRec has tried several times with new (supposedly improved) algorithms - but each time the result is terrible. In their most recent try, they have a fine fighter like Fighting Harada in 636th place P4P all-time... and Bob Fitzsimmons at #2407!

- -Glancing at their forums, it's been a near insurrection on boxrec over these new rankings based on fantasy future fight.

No need to point out all the man made disasters and destructions over the millenniums to expose the lack of judgement of mankind that continue to this day.

First there was evolution, and now deevolution. Good luck with your perfect ratings and world!

[Marchegiano]

My point is, that you can't rank boxers by computer. No matter how good your intentions, and how much work you put into it, it simply doesn't work.

BoxRec has tried several times with new (supposedly improved) algorithms - but each time the result is terrible. In their most recent try, they have a fine fighter like Fighting Harada in 636th place P4P all-time... and Bob Fitzsimmons at #2407!

I agree, but I figured Paul and his list were famous enough to be reprinted often enough for me to copy it and save it, surely someone knows some more about it and could shine some light on how the computer got there and then we may not have an answer for how a human placed Evander at 18 but we do have a reason for a computer to place him at 20.

[Marchegiano]

I have just read your post over in the Wlad-Bowe thread - and I have to say, that I can follow you a long way!

I remember watching Wlad vs Povetkin, and was appalled to see how Wlad was allowed to grab, clinch and spoil his way through all 12 rounds. And against an opponent who really posed no danger to him! I couldn't understand, why that was necessary. It was such a disgraceful performance, that I never really forgave him - though I do think he redeemed himself somewhat in his last fight against Joshua, where he at least manned up and gave it a shot.

Overall I'm not a big fan of the heavyweights these days - though I don't think it will be mostly remembered as the era, where boxers punched themselves in the face! That's too harsh, I believe. Sure, silly things happen every now and then, but I don't think that is representative of all of today's boxing.

People may not like Fury, but I don't think he's a complete bum, whose biggest contribution to boxing history is a clip, where he hits himself in the face. Wouldn't you agree, that there's a bit more to him than that - or is it all bad, in your opinion?

No, that's a bit extreme, but I would say he's not proven he's as great as the last few generations prior to the K2 era or that he isn't but he has given us reason to believe either side of that coin.

He's not an undisputed, though he is close, he did punch himself, but he is the only champion to have held all four belts at some point in their career since Lennox.

I dunno what to think of TF to be honest. At the moment I'd rate him just above the other Wlad defeaters, Corrie, Joshua, Ross, I do believe he's the best to topple Wlad, and, I do believe he'd've beaten Wlad at any point in Wlad's career, but, Lewis, Holy, Tyson, Holmes, the generation right before and the one right before that, I think are better.

[QueensburyRules]

No, that's a bit extreme, but I would say he's not proven he's as great as the last few generations prior to the K2 era or that he isn't but he has given us reason to believe either side of that coin.

He's not an undisputed, though he is close, he did punch himself, but he is the only champion to have held all four belts at some point in their career since Lennox.

I dunno what to think of TF to be honest. At the moment I'd rate him just above the other Wlad defeaters, Corrie, Joshua, Ross, I do believe he's the best to topple Wlad, and, I do believe he'd've beaten Wlad at any point in Wlad's career, but, Lewis, Holy, Tyson, Holmes, the generation right before and the one right before that, I think are better.

- -Get tired of beating up forum members, so how about a Question?

What is the biggest thing Fury and Lewis have in common other than being boxers and winning titles?

I await with baited breath!

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Get tired of beating up forum members, so how about a Question?

What is the biggest thing Fury and Lewis have in common other than being boxers and winning titles?

I await with baited breath!

They show a propensity for laziness; distraction and can get caught?

Did I get it right?

[QueensburyRules]

They show a propensity for laziness; distraction and can get caught?

Did I get it right?

- -While true, that falls in with they were both boxers.

I talking BIG common denominator with each other that I don't recall any other heavies having.

[Marchegiano]

- -Get tired of beating up forum members, so how about a Question?

What is the biggest thing Fury and Lewis have in common other than being boxers and winning titles?

I await with baited breath!

Pun intended I assume?

They are large...I'm curious why we are comparing Lennox to Tyson directly?

Are you alluding to the fact that Lennox is a large guy who could box and punch and basically had all the tools needed to be great without making those techniques look a bit sloppy?

[Anthony342]

Pun intended I assume?

They are large...I'm curious why we are comparing Lennox to Tyson directly?

Are you alluding to the fact that Lennox is a large guy who could box and punch and basically had all the tools needed to be great without making those techniques look a bit sloppy?

Or they're both from the UK and have accents?

[QueensburyRules]

- -U boys obviously FAIL at processing critical data that has been discussed before.

I'll let the herd ruminate their cud further in hopes the digested product gives them a surge of cognizance.

Fury and Lewis partners in crimes against boxing.....and?