Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[travestyny]

That's from 1911/1912, the quote I provided was from 1913. By that time, he hadn't fought Langford or McVea, nor did he entertain multiple $30K+ offers to fight them in Paris or anywhere else.

I think you are misunderstanding my point.

It's showing that he already attempted to fight them both.

The quotation you picked out is an attempt at humor. He obviously is saying he is an actor. Whether that means he would fight if given the amount he wanted is another story.

Can I ask my question now, or do I need to say more?

[GhostofDempsey]

I think you are misunderstanding my point.

It's showing that he already attempted to fight them both.

The quotation you picked out is an attempt at humor. He obviously is saying he is an actor. Whether that means he would fight if given the amount he wanted is another story.

Can I ask my question now, or do I need to say more?

Here we go again, assuming he meant something different. You've done this now with McKetrick, Bert Sugar, and other sources and articles. Now it's "he was just being humorous". Bet it wasn't funny to Langford. He reluctantly agreed to a make a fight that was conveniently cancelled, and like NY he probably knew it would never come off as he himself suggested of the fight in NY. McIntosh himself said he could never do business with Johnson again because he was constantly changing terms, moving the goal line and even McIntosh insisted Jack wanted nothing to do with Langford again. Too many fight-makers around the world have expressed the same sentiment. As history has shown, he never fought them as champion.

Ask a question, I've answered all of them thus far.

[travestyny]

Here we go again, assuming he meant something different. You've done this now with McKetrick, Bert Sugar, and other sources and articles. Now it's "he was just being humorous". Bet it wasn't funny to Langford. He reluctantly agreed to a make a fight that was conveniently cancelled, and like NY he probably knew it would never come off as he himself suggested of the fight in NY. McIntosh himself said he could never do business with Johnson again because he was constantly changing terms, moving the goal line and even McIntosh insisted Jack wanted nothing to do with Langford again. Too many fight-makers around the world have expressed the same sentiment. As history has shown, he never fought them as champion.

Ask a question, I've answered all of them thus far.

What????? Assume he meant something different??? Dude.


Just to make this even more clear, because I don't think you really get what you are reading.

He was performing at a vaudeville house, hence why he says he will draw the color line LIKE OTHER ACTORS.

I guess he couldn't expect everyone to get the humor.

Your proof that he admit to drawing the color line was a joke. And I think it was a clever answer honestly.

[travestyny]

Ask a question, I've answered all of them thus far.

Ok.


You've stated that McKetrick got to the media first, and that's why word got out that the Jeannette vs. Johnson match was to be for the title.


Can you provide an article or anything from McKetrick that appears before this article in which the promoters make it clear that it is to be a championship bout?

August 15th 1912

http://freepdfhosting.com/47cea40102.pdf

Here is McKetrick's Statement.

August 19th, 1912

http://freepdfhosting.com/2a66de542c.pdf

As you can see the first article precedes McKetrick's. So my question is very simple.

What proof can you link me to that McKetrick got to the press before the first article which was written the day after the fight was made?

[GhostofDempsey]

What????? Assume he meant something different??? Dude.


Just to make this even more clear, because I don't think you really get what you are reading.

He was performing at a vaudeville house, hence why he says he will draw the color line LIKE OTHER ACTORS.

I guess he couldn't expect everyone to get the humor.

Your proof that he admit to drawing the color line was a joke. And I think it was a clever answer honestly.

Again, you're assuming he meant something different from what he said. Another topic to go in circles. Getting nowhere here.

[travestyny]

Again, you're assuming he meant something different from what he said. Another topic to go in circles. Getting nowhere here.

huh?

I'm not assuming what he meant. It's exactly what he said! Don't you think it would have been "Jack Johnson Draws The Color Line" in big quotations if that's what it meant?


Does that mean you won't answer my question? I thought you just told me I had the green light to ask.

[travestyny]

Welp, there you have it.

Dude agreed to go question for question.

Told him he can have first crack, asked him if I need to explain further at every step of the way. Asked when I can proceed with my question at every step of the way.

Got confirmation to ask my question. Posed my question...dude runs off immediately

Now there is absolutely no doubt of what happened here.

[GhostofDempsey]

Welp, there you have it.

Dude agreed to go question for question.

Told him he can have first crack, asked him if I need to explain further at every step of the way. Asked when I can proceed with my question at every step of the way.

Got confirmation to ask my question. Posed my question...dude runs off immediately

Now there is absolutely no doubt of what happened here.

I have a life outside of NSB, unlike you up at 2:30 AM and all day long posting here. For one thing, I don't owe you an immediate response. I'll respond to your question when I'm ready, not within some invisible time-line you set for me. You are so quick to want to raise your hands in victory that you now accuse me of running off. I'll answer your question, and then we are done here. Your behavior here and on your Floyd thread is indicative of someone who wants to instigate beefs and push buttons. I've given you every opportunity to conduct yourself like an adult but you chose the low road.

Jack Johnson indeed said he will draw the color line. You don't get to re-interpret what he said. You've done with with McKetrick, Sugar and Johnson as well as other sources. No answer to your endless twisting and turning of the facts is going to satisfy you. Whatever mental or personality disorder you have that is driving this behavior has now gone beyond reason.

To your question...do you think McKetrick wasn't working hand-in-hand with those promoters? They are each claiming the same thing! It is in their best and mutual interest to promote it as such so each of them can cash in. Managers and promoters work hand in hand in case you didn't know that. Haymon himself is one and the same. Kearns and Rickard worked together to promote and manage fighters.

In fact, McKetrick was not only a manger but promoter as well for Madison Square Garden--the venue that he worked with Billy Gibson on while attempting to get a fight with Johnson. As you know, that bit of scandal that allowed someone to be both manager and promoter was corrected with the Ali Act. To add insult to injury, McKetrick was also a newspaper editor. He had a lock on what he wanted the public to believe!

https://books.google.com/books?id=T52fDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=dan+mcketrick+joe+jeannette&source=bl&ots=8Vg5dmeA6K&sig=ACfU3U1zdzuyMFwgE7Qsig2fh1wRNvvflg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz5IXEsYHpAhXhmnIEHb2RCQUQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=dan%20mcketrick%20joe%20jeannette&f=false

The fact that they are on the same page just days apart should tell you they had a mutual interest in getting this fight billed as a title fight. The fact that McKetrick lied that Jeannette was the champion when he wasn't is further proof of his dishonestly.

McKetrick had a reputation for taking liberties with the truth.

"Perhaps it had been McKetrick who started the tall tales about all the knockdowns in the Finish Fight in the first place as a marketing ploy. Like so many managers, McKetrick had a flair for the hyperbole, and a Harford Courant article in June of 1909 intimates that Parisians were getting wise to the little manager with the large mouth. How far would McKetrick go in order to secure bouts for his fighters? In a 1913 article by T.S. Andrews in The Racine Journal-News, McKetrick attributes Jeannette's biracial heritage to the fact that he is "such a fine fellow and such a home body"...described Jeannette as "more Arabian than ne gro," and as such placed him slightly ahead of Sam Langford as heir to the throne of Jack Johnson.

That same year McKetrick told Ripley of Ripley's Believe it or Not that Jeannette had been put down "24 times" in the Finish Fight, and that he had used "two cans of oxygen and goodness knows how much smelling salts and stimulants" to revive him. The intervention McKetrick had devised was certainly one that he himself had faith in, and he hoped for future Finish Fights, no doubt to use his tricks in the corner.

From:

The First Black Boxing Champions: Essays on Fighters of the 1800s to 1920s. Colleen Ayc ock and Mark Scott

Jeannette had been reported down in only 7 rounds by several reporters, but the more McKetrick told it, the more knockdowns were added, reports of 22, 24, 27, and at times 29. Without footage of the full fight we'll never know for certain, but McKetrick's version stuck.

McKetrick also used illegal tactics in an effort to aid Jeannette during the fight, walking around the edge of the ring splashing cold water on him.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/168775177?searchTerm=JOE

[ShoulderRoll]

Jack Johnson indeed said he will draw the color line. You don't get to re-interpret what he said.

It can't be said that he drew the color line, though. Because he did defend the title against a black man.

[travestyny]

I have a life outside of NSB, unlike you up at 2:30 AM and all day long posting here. For one thing, I don't owe you an immediate response. I'll respond to your question when I'm ready, not within some invisible time-line you set for me. You are so quick to want to raise your hands in victory that you now accuse me of running off. I'll answer your question, and then we are done here. Your behavior here and on your Floyd thread is indicative of someone who wants to instigate beefs and push buttons. I've given you every opportunity to conduct yourself like an adult but you chose the low road.

Jack Johnson indeed said he will draw the color line. You don't get to re-interpret what he said. You've done with with McKetrick, Sugar and Johnson as well as other sources. No answer to your endless twisting and turning of the facts is going to satisfy you. Whatever mental or personality disorder you have that is driving this behavior has now gone beyond reason.

To your question...do you think McKetrick wasn't working hand-in-hand with those promoters? They are each claiming the same thing! It is in their best and mutual interest to promote it as such so each of them can cash in. Managers and promoters work hand in hand in case you didn't know that. Haymon himself is one and the same. Kearns and Rickard worked together to promote and manage fighters.

In fact, McKetrick was not only a manger but promoter as well for Madison Square Garden--the venue that he worked with Billy Gibson on while attempting to get a fight with Johnson. As you know, that bit of scandal that allowed someone to be both manager and promoter was corrected with the Ali Act. To add insult to injury, McKetrick was also a newspaper editor. He had a lock on what he wanted the public to believe!

https://books.google.com/books?id=T52fDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=dan+mcketrick+joe+jeannette&source=bl&ots=8Vg5dmeA6K&sig=ACfU3U1zdzuyMFwgE7Qsig2fh1wRNvvflg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz5IXEsYHpAhXhmnIEHb2RCQUQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=dan%20mcketrick%20joe%20jeannette&f=false

The fact that they are on the same page just days apart should tell you they had a mutual interest in getting this fight billed as a title fight. The fact that McKetrick lied that Jeannette was the champion when he wasn't is further proof of his dishonestly.

McKetrick had a reputation for taking liberties with the truth.

"Perhaps it had been McKetrick who started the tall tales about all the knockdowns in the Finish Fight in the first place as a marketing ploy. Like so many managers, McKetrick had a flair for the hyperbole, and a Harford Courant article in June of 1909 intimates that Parisians were getting wise to the little manager with the large mouth. How far would McKetrick go in order to secure bouts for his fighters? In a 1913 article by T.S. Andrews in The Racine Journal-News, McKetrick attributes Jeannette's biracial heritage to the fact that he is "such a fine fellow and such a home body"...described Jeannette as "more Arabian than ne gro," and as such placed him slightly ahead of Sam Langford as heir to the throne of Jack Johnson.

That same year McKetrick told Ripley of Ripley's Believe it or Not that Jeannette had been put down "24 times" in the Finish Fight, and that he had used "two cans of oxygen and goodness knows how much smelling salts and stimulants" to revive him. The intervention McKetrick had devised was certainly one that he himself had faith in, and he hoped for future Finish Fights, no doubt to use his tricks in the corner.

From:

The First Black Boxing Champions: Essays on Fighters of the 1800s to 1920s. Colleen Ayc ock and Mark Scott

Jeannette had been reported down in only 7 rounds by several reporters, but the more McKetrick told it, the more knockdowns were added, reports of 22, 24, 27, and at times 29. Without footage of the full fight we'll never know for certain, but McKetrick's version stuck.

McKetrick also used illegal tactics in an effort to aid Jeannette during the fight, walking around the edge of the ring splashing cold water on him.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...searchTerm=JOE

So just to clarify....you have no proof that McKetrick got to the press first, right? lol. If you had no proof that McKetrick got to the press first, then why did you say it??????????


And to be clear, all of that's not an answer to the question. You said that McKetrick made it to the press before anyone else. Now you're backtracking and saying, "No no....everyone is lying because I say so."


So now conveniently both the Promotors and the manager were lying and in cahoots. Proof of that? You have none. Got it, buddy!!!

Same promoters that put up $5000 in 1912 that the fight would happen. Yea ok. lol. How the hell does a promoter "cash-in" on a canceled fight where they might wind up losing the forfeit!!!!
OBVIOUSLY THERE WERE NO PROFITS TO BE MADE FROM A CANCELED FIGHT!!!

It's completely loopy what you're saying and it's getting worse!!!!


So if the promoters and the managers are both lying (with no proof) then I suppose it's just safe to say everyone in history is lying and we are left with nothing here.

Thanks! Like I said, this is over, man.