Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[GhostofDempsey]

Oh really, were they? I guess you should read some of these anonymous articles.

Here is the commissioner letting it be known that he was aware of the offer and declining to answer whether the old rule against Jack would apply.

And why was the bout "up in the air" when the commission delayed their decision if it was already settled, hmmm?

Let me guess....it was planted by McKetrick? lol. Can you explain?






What? I asked you about the promoters and you are still talking about mcKetrick. Give it up




If I hadn't proven my point, you wouldn't be still responding trying to change course of your sunken ship. We both know what has taken place here, and it isn't even close.


You've denied retirements, forfeits, etc. but time and again I come back with more sources and you come back with nothing. Your whole "don't believe what you read while I believe what I read" routine is pretty lame. My sources are very specific to the point. You're all over the place in desperation.

Haha, you paraphrased your own sources and left out the most crucial part -- The article states that Johnson wants to face Jeannette but doesn't really want to re-enter the ring again, and doesn't believe there is a ghost of a chance the fight will come off. Which is what I alluded to earlier in the thread. Johnson never wanted these fights and always knew there would be an "out" to give the appearance that he tried to make a fight with them that he knew could not be made.

On 27 Aug 1912 it was reported that Johnson was offered 6,000 pounds to meet Jeannette in Paris by the promoter Victor Bryer. That fight never took place either. What was Jacks's excuse?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111407979?searchTerm=%22jack%20Johnson%22%20jeannette&searchLimits=

Oh, his excuse was he was "retiring" again on 28 Aug 1912, so he could decline offers to fight Jeannette in Philadelphia and Paris.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122763850?searchTerm=%22jack%20Johnson%22%20jeannette&searchLimits=

Obviously he didn't retire, he was still champion and used "retirement" excuses to avoid fighters much the way Mayweather did during his prime.

[travestyny]

Haha, you paraphrased your own sources and left out the most crucial part -- The article states that Johnson wants to face Jeannette but doesn't really want to re-enter the ring again, and doesn't believe there is a ghost of a chance the fight will come off. Which is what I alluded to earlier in the thread. Johnson never wanted these fights and always knew there would be an "out" to give the appearance that he tried to make a fight with them that he knew could not be made.

He stated a billion times that he was only going to fight because his wife wanted him to, and that he didn't care that it was called off. But nice try. Has absolutely nothing to do with the fight being nixed through no fault of his own.

On 27 Aug 1912 it was reported that Johnson was offered 6,000 pounds to meet Jeannette in Paris by the promoter Victor Bryer. That fight never took place either. What was Jacks's excuse?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111407979?searchTerm=%22jack%20Johnson%22%20jeannette&searchLimits=

Oh, his excuse was he was "retiring" again on 28 Aug 1912, so he could decline offers to fight Jeannette in Philadelphia and Paris.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122763850?searchTerm=%22jack%20Johnson%22%20jeannette&searchLimits=

Obviously he didn't retire, he was still champion and used "retirement" excuses to avoid fighters much the way Mayweather did during his prime.

So you answer the question yourself and that's supposed to mean something? He was attempting to retire BEFORE the Jeannette bout. Did retire. Came back and accepted it. Once it was scrapped, he retired again.

And guess which bouts he accepted upon un-retiring? That's right. LANGFORD AND MCVEA

So you're saying he ducked into retirement only to come out and face Langford and McVea. Good logic, bro.

By the way, where did you get your information. Is that a newspaper

[travestyny]

What part of "I will not allow Jack Johnson to fight in NY against ANYONE" is unclear to you?

By the way, here is some more for you to be upset over.

Apparently it was also unclear to Al Palzer

' Al' Palzer, the heavyweight prizefighter, has brought suit in the City Court against Frank O'Neil, Chairman of the State Boxing Commission, to recover from which he alleges he gave the Commissioner upon his promise to arrange a fight between Palzer and "Jack" Johnson at Madison Square Garden.

Well Well. Look who was trying to make a fight at MSG with Al Palzer and.....JACK JOHNSON. Is that Frank O'neil?????

The reason that the NY Commission never complained about the MSG bout is because Frank O'neil was part owner of MSG.


I know you like historians (though you are hypocritical when it comes to articles). So here ya go. Have fun!

https://books.google.com/books?id=ATzTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=new+york+commissioner+took+money+for+Jack+Johnson+boxing+frank+oneil&source=bl&ots=6CwUOMi7mb&sig=ACfU3U1xri-78M4X0hSY6g7CztIiFu-FZw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWkeiR5_zoAhW9lnIEHdYZA7kQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Care to tell me how this guy was part owner of MSG at the same time that MSG was offering Johnson a fight at MSG if no Jack Johnson fight was to be allowed?

[GhostofDempsey]

By the way, here is some more for you to be upset over.

Apparently it was also unclear to Al Palzer

Well Well. Look who was trying to make a fight at MSG with Al Palzer and.....JACK JOHNSON. Is that Frank O'neil?????

The reason that the NY Commission never complained about the MSG bout is because Frank O'neil was part owner of MSG.


I know you like historians (though you are hypocritical when it comes to articles). So here ya go. Have fun!

https://books.google.com/books?id=ATzTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=new+york+commissioner+took+money+for+Jack+Johnson+boxing+frank+oneil&source=bl&ots=6CwUOMi7mb&sig=ACfU3U1xri-78M4X0hSY6g7CztIiFu-FZw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWkeiR5_zoAhW9lnIEHdYZA7kQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Care to tell me how this guy was part owner of MSG at the same time that MSG was offering Johnson a fight at MSG if no Jack Johnson fight was to be allowed?

You’re muddling in hypotheticals and trying to apply what happened elsewhere to what happened with Johnson and Jeannette. All the facts are in, Johnson found a way to avoid giving title shots to the four fighters mentioned throughout this thread. Knowing NY was one big shady mess why try to make a fight there? Why not Paris which was offered to him for $30k immediately after this exhibition with Jeannette was called off? He could have easily made fights with these men who be himself admits he avoided while champion. Are you calling Johnson himself a liar? He said he drew the color line! He said there was no money to be made fighting black fighters...yet here are all of these offers of $30K+, so he lied that there was no money fighting black fighters?

[travestyny]

You’re muddling in hypotheticals and trying to apply what happened elsewhere to what happened with Johnson and Jeannette. All the facts are in, Johnson found a way to avoid giving title shots to the four fighters mentioned throughout this thread.

Oh really? I haven't seen that proof at all. I've seen that he accepted fights with all of them and that for some reason upsets you.

Muddling with hypotheticals? Please. I've already proven he accepted for Jeannette for the title, which set you off into some McKetrick conspiracy theory.

Then you tried to go with Frank O'neil, not knowing about his background of being accused of taking money (to make a Johnson fight in New York no less!!!) and overlooking MSG offering Jack Johnson fights while being a part owner.

Now you're on about Johnson retiring to avoid Jeannette, after already agreeing to fight him and having it pulled by the commission, and coming back and agreeing to fight Langford and McVea.

Yea, you're batting zero here buddy.

Knowing NY was one big shady mess why try to make a fight there? Why not Paris which was offered to him for $30k immediately after this exhibition with Jeannette was called off? He could have easily made fights with these men who be himself admits he avoided while champion. Are you calling Johnson himself a liar? He said he drew the color line! He said there was no money to be made fighting black fighters...yet here are all of these offers of $30K+, so he lied that there was no money fighting black fighters?

At what point did he supposedly admit to avoiding them???? In 1912 he was set to face Joe Jeannette, but the NY commission pulled it. Dont' we agree with that? . Your only contention was that it wasn't for the title, which was proven false.

So even you agree that he didn't avoid them. Agreed to fight Langford and McVea shortly after that. Do I have to post it again?

He declined the $20,000 MSG offer. When a suitable offer was made, he accepted. When the fight was pulled, he immediately retired. I'm sorry that upsets you because it doesn't fit into your agenda. When you take into account that after he came back he agreed to fight Langford and McVea, that ends all of your bs and you have nothing left.

You've struck out. No proof the fight wasn't for the title. The commission had to meet to decide what they would do and they pulled the fight, so that certainly speaks against your "it was already decided" bs.

Johnson then agreed to face Langford and McVea and the promoters pulled it after the Mann Act. The statement given BY THE PROMOTERS!

Anything else you need help with? You can keep trying, but these facts aint going nowhere. Give up!


I'd very much welcome other posters to chime in, but apparently all you will do is throw out insults at them when they don't believe you Are you trying to get this thread closed by attacking people that way???

You say Willie offered nothing. In fact, he and Pac Boy both offered something....it's called COMMON SENSE. No one believes your silly McKetrick conspiracy theory. You claimed he got to the press before anyone else but the record doesn't show that. This is pretty much over.

[GhostofDempsey]

Oh really? I haven't seen that proof at all. I've seen that he accepted fights with all of them and that for some reason upsets you.

Muddling with hypotheticals? Please. I've already proven he accepted for Jeannette for the title, which set you off into some McKetrick conspiracy theory.

Then you tried to go with Frank O'neil, not knowing about his background of being accused of taking money (to make a Johnson fight in New York no less!!!) and overlooking MSG offering Jack Johnson fights while being a part owner.

Now you're on about Johnson retiring to avoid Jeannette, after already agreeing to fight him and having it pulled by the commission, and coming back and agreeing to fight Langford and McVea.

Yea, you're batting zero here buddy.





At what point did he supposedly admit to avoiding them???? In 1912 he was set to face Joe Jeannette, but the NY commission pulled it. Dont' we agree with that? . Your only contention was that it wasn't for the title, which was proven false.

So even you agree that he didn't avoid them. Agreed to fight Langford and McVea shortly after that. Do I have to post it again?

He declined the $20,000 MSG offer. When a suitable offer was made, he accepted. When the fight was pulled, he immediately retired. I'm sorry that upsets you because it doesn't fit into your agenda. When you take into account that after he came back he agreed to fight Langford and McVea, that ends all of your bs and you have nothing left.

You've struck out. No proof the fight wasn't for the title. The commission had to meet to decide what they would do and they pulled the fight, so that certainly speaks against your "it was already decided" bs.

Johnson then agreed to face Langford and McVea and the promoters pulled it after the Mann Act. The statement given BY THE PROMOTERS!

Anything else you need help with? You can keep trying, but these facts aint going nowhere. Give up!


I'd very much welcome other posters to chime in, but apparently all you will do is throw out insults at them when they don't believe you Are you trying to get this thread closed by attacking people that way???

You say Willie offered nothing. In fact, he and Pac Boy both offered something....it's called COMMON SENSE. No one believes your silly McKetrick conspiracy theory. You claimed he got to the press before anyone else but the record doesn't show that. This is pretty much over.

You trying to pull in help and turn me against them is nothing new. I never insulted anyone else. I’ve been respectful to everyone who chimed into this thread. You certainly have insulted Queenie and Rusty. You’ve insulted me plenty in here. To The point where you are going to get what you have been wanting all along. This has deteriorated to the level of childish bickering and your refusal to acknowledge credible sources, calling these fighters liars, and trying to use shady managers, promoters and commissioners who are heavily connected with the press as your sources.

Johnson in his own words avoided them as champion. The fighters in their own words insist he did not give them title shots. Yet you insist they are all liars. Good luck.

[travestyny]

You trying to pull in help and turn me against them is nothing new. I never insulted anyone else. I’ve been respectful to everyone who chimed into this thread. You certainly have insulted Queenie and Rusty. You’ve insulted me plenty in here. To The point where you are going to get what you have been wanting all along. This has deteriorated to the level of childish bickering and your refusal to acknowledge credible sources, calling these fighters liars, and trying to use shady managers, promoters and commissioners who are heavily connected with the press as your sources.

Johnson in his own words avoided them as champion. The fighters in their own words insist he did not give them title shots. Yet you insist they are all liars. Good luck.

You didn't just insult Willie? You certainly did. Just because he didn't buy your ****amime McKetrick story. No one was going to believe something that reeked of so much desperation.

I certainly didn't need any help here. You are simply incapable of admitting you are wrong and you'll say anything that comes to your mind to try to pretend you are right. Could you admit you were wrong about the forfeits? Nope. Could you admit you were wrong about the retirement? Nope.

You've ducked, dodged, insulted, been hypocritical, made accusations of me lying, yet I've been very calm and disproved all of your bs with sources. You claim newspapers should be ignored...while posting newspapers a number of times yourself. That should tell you something right there about how unbiased you are.

I've acknowledge everything that you've posted. I just simply proven it's wrong. The proof is right here.

You are the one flipping out insulting others, not me buddy. It's clear you don't like how this went down. I guess the truth hurts, but I can't figure out why it hurts you to the point that you've said such ridiculous things here. Oh well. That's for you to figure out.

Good luck.

[GhostofDempsey]

You didn't just insult Willie? You certainly did. Just because he didn't buy your ****amime McKetrick story. No one was going to believe something that reeked of so much desperation.

I certainly didn't need any help here. You are simply incapable of admitting you are wrong and you'll say anything that comes to your mind to try to pretend you are right. Could you admit you were wrong about the forfeits? Nope. Could you admit you were wrong about the retirement? Nope.

You've ducked, dodged, insulted, been hypocritical, made accusations of me lying, yet I've been very calm and disproved all of your bs with sources. You claim newspapers should be ignored...while posting newspapers a number of times yourself. That should tell you something right there.

I've acknowledge everything that you've posted. I just simply proven it's wrong. The proof is right here.

You are the one flipping out insulting others, not me buddy. It's clear you don't like how this went down. I guess the truth hurts, but I can't figure out why it hurts you to the point that you've said such ridiculous things here. Oh well. That's for you to figure out.

Good luck.

Never insulted Willie, I simply referred to him as a noob in the context of being unfamiliar with your patterns of behavior on here, not his boxing knowledge.

My sources outweigh yours, regardless of how you try to sell it. History does not lie. Nor did the fighters you collectively accuse of lying.

[travestyny]

Never insulted Willie, I simply referred to him as a noob in the context of being unfamiliar with your patterns of behavior on here, not his boxing knowledge.

My sources outweigh yours, regardless of how you try to sell it. History does not lie. Nor did the fighters you collectively accuse of lying.

Oh really?


Want to put up your sig over it? I bet you decline


Good luck trying to prove any of those guys saying JJohnson drew the color line right when Battlin Jim is staring you in the face (which definitively proves your sources are either misinformed or outright liars). Good luck trying to prove the Jeannette fight wasn't for the title with the promoters and his manager stating it was. Good lucky trying to prove Johnson ducked Langford and McVey when the promoter admits to nixing the bout after Johnson had agreed.


You called Willie a noob because he disagreed with you, and accused me of softening him up over DM's to agree. LMAO. First of all, he DM'ed me initially. Second, we didn't even discuss this. We discussed Bert Sugar and his Langford story. Go ask Willie. Tell him that you called him a noob because he didn't buy your story while ur at it. We both know that's why you insulted him.


By the way, you claimed I tried to soften him up "like I did to you." Why don't you go ahead and post my DM to you. I give you permission. Let's see how much everyone gets a kick out of just how wrong you can be I mean if you're going to make the accusation, you might as well show the proof, right?

[QueensburyRules]

- -You'se guys got any motel video for us?