Langford or Tunney?

[Rusty Tromboni]

To say Tunney never took on a black challenger is a little unfair, given Harry Wills had the opportunity to fight him for a very lucrative ($250K) payday but ducked him in favor of Sharkey. Tunney was willing to fight Wills, but Wills wanted no part of him.

Langford was the best of the black fighters of his era along with Gans. His probably gets a little too much credit for his win over Gans seeing how Gans had just fought the night prior in Philadelphia and rode a train all the way to Boston while smoking and drinking heavily.

Langford was robbed of an opportunity to rematch Johnson when Johnson found a way to back out of contract to fight him in the U.K.

I'm glad you're here. You might be the only true adult amongst us. (Somewhere around 25 I elected to call it quits on growing up... happier for it of course.) So I can actually have a mature conversation that won't degenerate into something that can be summarized as "But Black people were discriminated against, so we have to pretend they were much better than they actually were". The preponderance of conversations on Boxing fora are little more than some iteration of that. A makes are meaningless to those children.

Regarding Gans: I dunno of anyone who has more pre-fabbed excuses. It's not Langford's fault Gans was ******.
Gans possibly didn't know what he was in for against Langford, believing this was just some kid. But Langford was bigger; only 16, but bigger. The Featherweight McGovern was 19 (three can mean a lot that age, admittedly), but he bombed out Gans in 2 rounds, and Gans knew what was in for. Britt also KO"d Gans.

Really, in those days, often several fights had to transpire before the better man was determined. I'm willing to give both Langford credit and Gans a pass, but don't think the fight should be used to really celebrate Langford or harm Gans.

If that's a cop-out, oh well; its the most honest assessment with the information/ evidence available.

[Rusty Tromboni]

It was not a ruse. He was offered the fight with Tunney as a title eliminator, but turned it down. He felt he was entitled to a shot without an eliminator.

The ruse was, as the Dempsey-Tunney fight approached. On August 6, 1926, the Evening Independent reported that a Chicago matchmaker, Doc Krone, announced that a $300,000 check was waiting for Dempsey in a Chicago bank. On August 22, the Telegraph Herald reported that Wills’ manager Paddy Mullins tried to bluff Dempsey once more into a contract, and then reportedly “failed to come forward with $150,000” saying, “We’ll post the money immediately if Dempsey will sign to fight Wills before September 23.” It was all too late. The public wanted Dempsey back, and he was in the ring with Gene Tunney three weeks later.

A month later, Jack Sharkey gave Wills a vicious beating. Even though he outweighed Sharkey by over 25 pounds, he was pummeled, bloodied and desperate, he fought dirty and was DQ'd.

Nice post.

Only an idiot would suggest the was a viable Black challenger that Tunney avoided. Especially when a case can be made for each Loughran, Stribling and Sharkey. Loughran, especially, was a magnificent fighter. The greatest true LHw history has given us, and peaking just as Tunney was, too.

I'm wondering if JAB isn't even an alt for Travesty, to be used when she wants to be taken seriously.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Now you understand why I have this idiot on ignore.

Langford, by far. Easy choice.

Really!?!? You told me it was because of that time when I didn't tell you that I knew my condom had broke.

[JAB5239]

It was not a ruse. He was offered the fight with Tunney as a title eliminator, but turned it down. He felt he was entitled to a shot without an eliminator.

The ruse was, as the Dempsey-Tunney fight approached. On August 6, 1926, the Evening Independent reported that a Chicago matchmaker, Doc Krone, announced that a $300,000 check was waiting for Dempsey in a Chicago bank. On August 22, the Telegraph Herald reported that Wills’ manager Paddy Mullins tried to bluff Dempsey once more into a contract, and then reportedly “failed to come forward with $150,000” saying, “We’ll post the money immediately if Dempsey will sign to fight Wills before September 23.” It was all too late. The public wanted Dempsey back, and he was in the ring with Gene Tunney three weeks later.

A month later, Jack Sharkey gave Wills a vicious beating. Even though he outweighed Sharkey by over 25 pounds, he was pummeled, bloodied and desperate, he fought dirty and was DQ'd.

I'm pretty sure Wills-Norfolk was billed as an eliminator. I'll see if I can dig up the others. Why would Wills need to keep fighting these eliminators when he was almost always picked in newspaper polls as being the best Challenger for Dempsey? Obviously the public wanted this fight, so I have little doubt the money was there.

[JAB5239]

Really!?!? You told me it was because of that time when I didn't tell you that I knew my condom had broke.

Do me a favor and stick to boxing.

[billeau2]

Fixed for you.

Greb fought for years with one eye... He made many adjustments and I have experience fighting someone with one eye who was one of the most toughest fighters I ever saw, much less fought.

Grebs style was such that he made it work. Also, the fights were both very similar...Its not like Greb looked very different in the second fight than the first.

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm pretty sure Wills-Norfolk was billed as an eliminator. I'll see if I can dig up the others. Why would Wills need to keep fighting these eliminators when he was almost always picked in newspaper polls as being the best Challenger for Dempsey? Obviously the public wanted this fight, so I have little doubt the money was there.

Wills/Norfolk was the eliminator for the 1922 fight to face Dempsey, not the 1926 bout which is where Tunney comes in.

[JAB5239]

Wills/Norfolk was the eliminator for the 1922 fight to face Dempsey, not the 1926 bout which is where Tunney comes in.

Exactly. My point is that Wills had already fought in Eliminators and was not given his shot. What would change facing Tunney in a challenge that wouldn't be honored if he won? Tunney knew Wills wouldn't accept because he was already the mandatory and had already won previous eliminators.. Gene used this as PR to boost his own standing for a shot at Dempsey since it was clear Jack was never going to face Wills.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm pretty sure Wills-Norfolk was billed as an eliminator. I'll see if I can dig up the others. Why would Wills need to keep fighting these eliminators when he was almost always picked in newspaper polls as being the best Challenger for Dempsey? Obviously the public wanted this fight, so I have little doubt the money was there.

- -Never fought an eliminator, but he turned down the one he was offered.

Norfolk was for Wills colored title. Dempsey fought Sharkey with the winner getting Tunney.

For eliminators to occur, there has to be authorization by a ruling authority, ie Rickard in this case.

What grade did you finish? I don't see that you picked up an iota of gravitas after all these years.

[GhostofDempsey]

Exactly. My point is that Wills had already fought in Eliminators and was not given his shot. What would change facing Tunney in a challenge that wouldn't be honored if he won? Tunney knew Wills wouldn't accept because he was already the mandatory and had already won previous eliminators.. Gene used this as PR to boost his own standing for a shot at Dempsey since it was clear Jack was never going to face Wills.

You are making bold assumptions. Dempsey had already signed two contracts to fight Wills but Wills people failed to deliver the agreed upon advance. Name one fighter in recent decades who would agree to a fight if conditions of a contract aren’t met? If checks bounce?

Tunney signed a contract to fight Wills, and Wills declines the fight. Wills got pummeled by Sharkey, and would likely have been pummeled as bad or worse by both Tunney and Dempsey.