The Truth Finally Revealed: Wills ducked Dempsey!

[billeau2]

I don't think you read what I had written. Nothing here argues with anything I wrote, it's just written as if it does argue with something I wrote....but it doesn't....so I have to assume you skimmed and didn't really pick up what I was saying.

I tried to go out of my way to be clear, we are following the earliest history connected to boxing, not the earliest history of fighting or anything else.

As far as hunting goes....I didn't even speak to how anyone hunted I spoke to the tools they carried. The point was shielding was older than war for the people groups.

I defined war as between nation states and categorized pre-nation conflicts as skirmishes.


Cycles of war and peace....yep...covered that.

Not the first form of any kind of combat, yes, covered that.

Hunting techniques vary, not important info to the lesson.


However, that final paragraph of yours is hogwash and bull****. You don't know what you're talking about and you gave that away the second you tried to speak to any detail at all. Cycles of war and peace is some vague ****, but, stealth hunting....less so.

There are two very popular forms of armed hunting coming from the region. There is taking **** from predators. There is no stealth, you're meant to scare the lion off it's kill.

And there is running them to exhaustion. Man can outrun any terrestrial animal in a distance race, they simply track the animal until it's too tired to carry on and kill it while it rests.

neither of which have anything to do with stealth.

Hunting became a stealth game later. I could have covered that, but, this is about boxing not every logical nit pick some jerk who never opened a book may think discredits my history.

You beat me to it... The notion that humans were ambush predators has to at the very least, be qualified. Animals do not set traps to lead a quarry... We are not fast, strong, or instincive enough to ambush much of anything, and we probably never have been. What we are is noodle users! the noodle in our heads.

[billeau2]

- -U aced the "U don't think" part magnificently, but blathering about undocumented Ethiopians migrating all the way to Greece without leaving a record save your fantasy pure bunkum.

The areas of what is now the states of Ethiopia and Kenya the earliest traceable origins of hominids that ultimately became mankind that spread across N Africa before migrating via the then Suez isthmus 100k years ago.

The first weapon appears in SAfrica over 2 mil yrs ago via hominids that mysteriously appear without a trace.

Ain't no weakling 80 lb hominids driving off a pride of lions feasting on a fresh kill clubs or not. Yeah, even U could drive off the post scavenger buzzards without weapons, big whoop-whoop!

The fact that Ethiopians had friezes depicting proto boxers in ancient times as they became empires is irrefutable.

What is refutable is your nonsense. I'm talking basic instincts that can be demonstrated in many untrained very young children whereas U gab about perceptions of stinkability logic.

Its all speculative. Think about the very notion of "a first" hominid. It supposes that there is a place, a neat place, where human beings came into being, in some inchoate form... Its not proven any more than the notion that human evolution came about in a few places, or even off this planet. Thats the real fact of the matter. It is poor logic to take facts and assume a credible way to frame them based on "well we had to come from one place right?"

Providing a narrative based on travelled paths in the old world makes a lot more sense...If you are willing to think about it. We are constantly finding that people went places way before we assumed they had gone there. We have Caucasians in China, for example, and many sophisticated cultures that predate the Aryan invasions from Iran circa Caspian Sea area, to India.

There is nothing illogical about ancient Hamo-African civilizations encountering Greeks. And hes absolutely correct about Egypt. She sat amongst Nubian giants...the Middle Kingdom was a time of many wars... it was the Nile that gave Egypt her initial advantages.

Keep in mind what March is doing. He is tracing combat forms and going where the data takes him. Thats what one is supposed to do.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ohh really? What was that?

The old, let's just have a private scrap in a basement with winner take all and never let anyone know what happened. Not for the title, of course?


lol. As pathetic as you ducking me

Is that what it said though?

Or are you twisting the truth again, to fit your narrative?

Jackson never proved a worthy challenger. Certainly not one for Sullivan, then king of the world, to abandon de fact retirement for. If Jackson didn't decline an offer from Sully, that's fine. Don't change the fact that Jackson wasn't fit to carry Sullivan's jockstrap.


I bet he did a helluva job shinning shoes, doe.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You beat me to it... The notion that humans were ambush predators has to at the very least, be qualified. Animals do not set traps to lead a quarry... We are not fast, strong, or instincive enough to ambush much of anything, and we probably never have been. What we are is noodle users! the noodle in our heads.

You've clearly never been hunting.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Nigerian dambe, which bears a striking similarity to illustrations of ancient Egyptian boxers, is contested with one hand wrapped in cord.

It is called the "spear."

The other hand is is held with the open palm facing the opponent.
It is known as the "shield."

They probably learned that from British troops.

Look at how old time fighters Boxed. Or the style McGregor has crafted today.

Surely they're not as good and it's not as violent as Mac & Co., but that's the obvious progenitor of this Nigerian style.

[billeau2]

You've clearly never been hunting.

When a group of human beings sets up a quarry, to go over a cliff for example...or to enter an area where there is no escape, so the quarry can be butchered, do you consider this an ambush? If so then I am mistaken. I consider it a compex strategy involving many things, and not an ambush per se.

If a human being wants to catch a rabbit, it will not succeed by waiting in the bushes and in a mad dash, grab the rabbit. The human being must be able to catch the animal at rest, use a weapon. These are not ambush strategies. Or maybe I am missing something?

What other carnivores use a similar strategy to hunt? Apes. Apes hunt monkeys...they love meat and for years those who studied them did not even think they ate meat!!!

Watch how Apes catch monkeys and let me ask you? Is this an ambush strategy to you? If it is then I am mistaken... I never have hunted an animal so I am willing to concede this point. To me? This strategy the apes use, is probably similar to how we hunted back in the day, and is a complex amalgamation of a few strategies at the very least... but hardly depends on an ambush for its success.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Its all speculative. Think about the very notion of "a first" hominid. It supposes that there is a place, a neat place, where human beings came into being, in some inchoate form... Its not proven any more than the notion that human evolution came about in a few places, or even off this planet. Thats the real fact of the matter. It is poor logic to take facts and assume a credible way to frame them based on "well we had to come from one place right?"

Providing a narrative based on travelled paths in the old world makes a lot more sense...If you are willing to think about it. We are constantly finding that people went places way before we assumed they had gone there. We have Caucasians in China, for example, and many sophisticated cultures that predate the Aryan invasions from Iran circa Caspian Sea area, to India.

There is nothing illogical about ancient Hamo-African civilizations encountering Greeks. And hes absolutely correct about Egypt. She sat amongst Nubian giants...the Middle Kingdom was a time of many wars... it was the Nile that gave Egypt her initial advantages.

Keep in mind what March is doing. He is tracing combat forms and going where the data takes him. Thats what one is supposed to do.

Ugh.

As a former teacher this stuff makes me cringe.

Have you ever heard of Occham's Razor? It's a neat little trick to apply to our thoughts. To self-regulate. To keep from going on wild tangents.

Look it up. While your storytelling is appreciated. When your posts start to lookime Maxine and Shortbus's, the true boxing fans feel like they've lost an ally.

[ShoulderRoll]

They probably learned that from British troops.

Look at how old time fighters Boxed. Or the style McGregor has crafted today.

Surely they're not as good and it's not as violent as Mac & Co., but that's the obvious progenitor of this Nigerian style.

Dambe traces back centuries, long before the British ever showed up.

You're not very bright, are you?

[Rusty Tromboni]

When a group of human beings sets up a quarry, to go over a cliff for example...or to enter an area where there is no escape, so the quarry can be butchered, do you consider this an ambush? If so then I am mistaken. I consider it a compex strategy involving many things, and not an ambush per se.

If a human being wants to catch a rabbit, it will not succeed by waiting in the bushes and in a mad dash, grab the rabbit. The human being must be able to catch the animal at rest, use a weapon. These are not ambush strategies. Or maybe I am missing something?

What other carnivores use a similar strategy to hunt? Apes. Apes hunt monkeys...they love meat and for years those who studied them did not even think they ate meat!!!

Watch how Apes catch monkeys and let me ask you? Is this an ambush strategy to you? If it is then I am mistaken... I never have hunted an animal so I am willing to concede this point. To me? This strategy the apes use, is probably similar to how we hunted back in the day, and is a complex amalgamation of a few strategies at the very least... but hardly depends on an ambush for its success.

I'll take that as a "no, but please let me off the hook, again".

Which I will. But let me leave you with this: life's complex. You're not doing yourself any favors by making it simplistic.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Cebeza de Vaca records the first fist fights in North America by Indians that include sticks as cudgels in early 1500. They were nonfatal to keep the tribe strong with legal disputes this settled. This before the Figg backsword/foil/cudgel/fist academy.

These are original Asian stock from 50,000 to 15,000 yrs ago.

De Vaca was one of the handful of survivors from the ill fated military expedition to claim North America. After years of enslavement, he adopted a medicine show and took it west to freedom in Baja with the help of sign language as there were dozens of unrelated dialects he passed thru. The only thing that saved him was that original medicine show tradition from Asia.

50,000 years ago there was no concept of Ethiopia, Greece, Egypt, or Rome nor any sword and shield candied nonsense.