The Truth Finally Revealed: Wills ducked Dempsey!

[travestyny]

- -U name dumbster now?

Jack weren't liable for more than he got against Tunney. Did Wills ever collect the $10 judgement?

U boy ducked the Dempsey tourney.

--U name dummy now?

Jack weren't liable to get that $800,000 because he ran away and broke a contract. Isn't that what happened?

Isn't it? Yes or no?

U boy ducked Wills and now you cry yourself to sleep at night.

How did he duck a tourney when according to our resident boxing historian he won an eliminator...but Dempsey didn't want it. Aint that right? Did you want him to fall for that again and again and again?

Dont paint my quote as misinformation. If anyone is misinformed its you. Refute anything I said with actual facts. You cant. Its a plain and simple fact that Jack Dempsey actively avoided Wills. Period. You can pretend his motivations were this or that but when he states he'd meet the winner of Fulton-Wills and then signs to fight the ill, comebacking Billy Miske the day after Wills knocks out Fulton and crushes three of his ribs in the process dont tell me he was fighting the best he could. When he then fights Bill Brennan, who had failed to beat Greb or Miske in six consecutive fights the previous year and had faced no threatening competition since then and who also had, not coincidentally, been stopped by Dempsey two years earlier, it was a step back not forward. Does anyone doubt that the six foot two inch 220lb Wills wouldnt have crushed the 168lb overrated Carpentier? After Carpentier was the aforementioned fake contract used to keep Dempsey from being stripped (the first of two times they used that ruse). Then he sits out for two years and faced Tommy Gibbons. Why? There were two eliminations held in 1922 for Dempsey: The first was Harry Wills-Kid Norfolk. Wills knocked Norfolk out in 2 rounds. Norfolk was Brennan's chief sparring partner for Dempsey and the press said he handled Brennan easier than Dempsey (who struggled mightily with Brennan). They advised Dempsey to steer clear of Norfolk. Wills smashed him easily. Like a bug. The other elimination was Greb-Gibbons. Greb dominated Gibbons and beat him easily. The press were unanimous that Greb had exposed Gibbons as poor challenger for Dempsey. So of the top two contenders, one white and one black. Did Dempsey choose either? No. So Tommy Gibbons got his title shot by losing his elimination bout. Sound like a champion looking for the toughest fights? Next Dempsey fought Firpo. Firpo was very vocal about the fact that he didnt think he was ready for Dempsey. That he wanted more time. He stated that Wills should get first shot. Understanding that the opportunity and such a payday may never come again he took the shot. He went life and death with Dempsey dropping him three times, once knocking him out of the ring, before being stopped in the second. Dempsey didnt fight again for three years and never again defended his title successfully. Sorry, but Dempsey wasnt the fearless mankiller he is painted as his legend. He was a media hyped, protected fighter who people built a myth around and realized that the revenue he generated was so great that he had to be kept from people who would threaten that. Sorry but thats not sports. Thats professional wrestling. Go back and look at his run up to the title and see how the various fights that were suspected to be fixed at the time of his in order to build his reputation. Go back and examine his opponents and you will see he wasnt that impressive. He wasnt going anywhere near Wills and Kearns, who had briefly managed Wills years earlier and knew exactly what he was capable of wasnt going to let him either. Had they really been that confident that Dempsey would defeat Wills they would have signed on the dotted line, knocked him out quick and easy like his deluded fans think he would have, and in one fell swoop they would have gained the biggest payday of Dempsey's career by far, put to bed the myth of Wills, and upheld the supposed honor of the white race in the supposed racist America of the day. Nobody would have ever said another word about it. But they knew that beating Wills wasnt a given and they also knew better than you or I that Wills had massive support among both whites and blacks and that racism was just one excuse to pluck from the multitude they constantly came up with for not defending against Dempsey's top challenger.

I'm really happy that boxing historians like Klompton are around. If not, butthurt fan boys like you would have people believing lies. Shame on all of you!

[QueensburyRules]

--U name dummy now?

Jack weren't liable to get that $800,000 because he ran away and broke a contract. Isn't that what happened?

Isn't it? Yes or no?

U boy ducked Wills and now you cry yourself to sleep at night.

How did he duck a tourney when according to our resident boxing historian he won an eliminator...but Dempsey didn't want it. Aint that right? Did you want him to fall for that again and again and again?




I'm really happy that boxing historians like Klompton are around. If not, butthurt fan boys like you would have people believing lies. Shame on all of you!

- -U getting salty over U boytoy Klompy?

U boy Wills ever collect his $10 judgement?

10 bucks back then, why that'd buy him a weeks worth of vegetables!

[Rusty Tromboni]

We have footage of both.

If one man feared the other it was Wills.

All this talk don't prove or disprove the film.

Wills wasn't in Dempsey's league.

It's like faulting Fedor for not fighting Sapp. Or Stipe for not fighting Lewis. Or for Buckley nnot debating Sharpton.

These guys should be lucky enough to carry their bags, let alone be considered peers.

[Rusty Tromboni]

--U name dummy now?

Jack weren't liable to get that $800,000 because he ran away and broke a contract. Isn't that what happened?

Isn't it? Yes or no?

U boy ducked Wills and now you cry yourself to sleep at night.

How did he duck a tourney when according to our resident boxing historian he won an eliminator...but Dempsey didn't want it. Aint that right? Did you want him to fall for that again and again and again?




I'm really happy that boxing historians like Klompton are around. If not, butthurt fan boys like you would have people believing lies. Shame on all of you!

Really? You are? Even though he celebrates Greb?

You're the one running around calling that bytch Robinson GOAT, and complaining that there's no footage of Greb.

Greb battered men bigger than himself. If there's someone Jack dodged, it wasn't Wills it was the OTHER Harry.

[travestyny]

- -U getting salty over U boytoy Klompy?

U boy Wills ever collect his $10 judgement?

10 bucks back then, why that'd buy him a weeks worth of vegetables!

Did your boy Dempsey break that contract?


Does it make you cry

[travestyny]

Really? You are? Even though he celebrates Greb?

You're the one running around calling that bytch Robinson GOAT, and complaining that there's no footage of Greb.

Greb battered men bigger than himself. If there's someone Jack dodged, it wasn't Wills it was the OTHER Harry.

Aww, what's the matter? Trying to deflect to another topic because Wills made Dempsey run for the hills, eh?

You should be complaining of having no footage of Greb since that means he fails your eye test

Remember that? Your #1 criteria for an all-time great Pathetic.

[billeau2]

I wonder if, 100 years from now, people will still be arguing over whether or not GGG ducked Ward or vice versa.

These are always such tangled webs... I think the process is ultimately good though. In this situation with Dempsey and Wills we have many trainers that were around in the 80's and even up to Tyson that said Jack was the best ever. On the other hand, some are now claiming that Dempsey was a protected fighter. So which is it?

It is important to remember that Babe Ruth and Jack Dempsey were the first real mega athletes, at least in the USA. They were both managed...One proof of this is that the Babe was an even better pitcher than a hitter. But pitching and winning is not nearly as exciting as hitting home runs. Fans were catered to first and foremost.

Its hard for me to think of Wills as a real threat to Dempsey. That sticks in my craw a bit. But I am all ears here as these guys duke it out about the contract. I do think Dempsey broke the contract. Is that a big deal? Not necessarily. It did not cost him much.

I look forward to more fireworks in this thread. Too bad that by the time history gets around to the GGG and Canello fight we will be wearing diapers and not remember our own names.

[billeau2]

Tunney as an opponent

So looking at Dempsey and assuming he had a say in whom he fights... I wonder what the perception of Tunney versus Wills would have been back then. Tunney had fought, among others, Greb and was probably looked at as being a tough fight. Also its worth mentioning that Dempsey could have let sleeping dogs lie after the first fight and was willing to do a rematch. And...he was pretty beat up that first fight (both of them were). This tells me in a general sort of way, that Dempsey was not taking a path of least resistance.

I also think its worth mentioning that fighting Greb was a no win proposition. If he wins, he beats a middle weight, If he loses, he loses to a middle weight. So I don't buy the argument that Dempsey was protected because he did not fight Greb.

What of Wills then? First of all... Wills had a really good record and fought great competition. He beat Langford, Mcvea, Jeanette, and Gunboat smith among others. Did he have fight better comp than Dempsey? Yes he did! On this measure alone, he comes out on top... But there are other measures to consider.

One such measure is style. Wills was a crafty fighter with good reach and decent power. Dempsey was a gate crasher. Wills fought quality guys, but he fought many of the same guys over and over. And he never really fought a range of fighters that would prepare him for Dempsey.

Put another way: I would think Tunney was the tougher fight out of the two. Tunney fought more variety of opponent. From the insolent Greb, to the fine boxing Loughren and carpenteir. So its hard to imagine that Dempsey was scared of Wills and willing to fight Tunney.

With that said, Wills was an impressive fighter and may well have given Dempsey a loss, I just do not see it as probable.

[ShoulderRoll]

In this situation with Dempsey and Wills we have many trainers that were around in the 80's and even up to Tyson that said Jack was the best ever. On the other hand, some are now claiming that Dempsey was a protected fighter. So which is it?

It's kind of like the situation with Rocky Marciano. Trainers who were alive to see Rocky as well as the champs who came before considered him crude and inferior to his predecessors.

On the other hand Marciano has now become a sacred cow to some. They insist that everyone misses his subtle and crafty skillset and will say things like "he was greater than Jack Dempsey."

Which is it, really?

[billeau2]

It's kind of like the situation with Rocky Marciano. Trainers who were alive to see Rocky as well as the champs who came before considered him crude and inferior to his predecessors.

On the other hand Marciano has now become a sacred cow to some. They insist that everyone misses his subtle and crafty skillset and will say things like "he was greater than Jack Dempsey."

Which is it, really?

Welll not exactly...None other than Don Turner, who ingeniously trained Holly to beat Tyson thought Marciano was the best hands down...I think Lou Duva agreed with him as well. Both worked with the Rock. And the Rock would never be confused with having subtlety. Even when watching him slip punches...its kind of like watching Frankenstein do a Waltz in great form...but as Frankenstein never the less.

If it were that simple Shoulder Roll... But is it ever?