Each HW Champ Combined With Himself

[The Old LefHook]

Jersey Joe Walcott.

But do we really know enough about Walcott's earlier fighting ways to say this?
You are implying that he was doing something later that he was not doing earlier on? What would that be?

[ShoulderRoll]

But do we really know enough about Walcott's earlier fighting ways to say this?
You are implying that he was doing something later that he was not doing earlier on? What would that be?

His craftiness and boxing IQ peaked when he was in his late 30s. Long after his physical peak had come and gone.

[The Old LefHook]

His craftiness and boxing IQ peaked when he was in his late 30s. Long after his physical peak had come and gone.

I don't buy it yet. You cannot pick up moves late in your career like Walcott had, one of the all time footwork and dancing masters.

If he already knew those moves, he must have been using them, as well.

I am not saying he didn't, but I would need to see more evidence that Walcott changed his style, so that the melding of old and new has something actual to work with, as opposed merely to having gotten a little wiser with age, as practically every fighter does.

[ShoulderRoll]

I don't buy it yet. You cannot pick up moves late in your career like Walcott had, one of the all time footwork and dancing masters.

If he already knew those moves, he must have been using them, as well.

I am not saying he didn't, but I would need to see more evidence that Walcott changed his style, so that the melding of old and new has something actual to work with, as opposed merely to having gotten a little wiser with age, as practically every fighter does.

He had 5 tries at the heavyweight title and only put everything together on his last attempt.

If you don't count his growing wiser with age why would you count Foreman's?

[DreamFighter]

well it does depend on what ends up in the gene splice, you never know what makes the cut.

You could splice the klitschkos to try and cure wladdie's weak chin and give vitai more skills, but you might end up with a brute with crappy boxing skills and crummy chin instead.

[billeau2]

Absolutely not on Tyson. The boxer's new self has to be able to put some successful fights together under a different scheme. Tyson was never able to do that whatsoever. Once he was gone--HE WAS GONE, never to return, though people kept hoping and paying.

One of the biggest charades in the history of boxing was a prime Lewis against a shot Tyson. Who cares? Yet that dog was a ticket selling marvel.

Yeah...that was a sad fight. Lewis wanted to show everyone he could beat Mike

[The Old LefHook]

He had 5 tries at the heavyweight title and only put everything together on his last attempt.

If you don't count his growing wiser with age why would you count Foreman's?

No, by bug reader, I count natural wisdom of aging, as well. George implemented pronounced stylistic changes to manifest his new incarnation. Foreman implemented the kind of things you can perfunctorily. But late in your career you cannot suddenly learn the magical footwork of Jersey Joe and implement that.

Later, Joe must have done something better--I have figured for a long time--but I don't know what it was. It might be training. Or maybe he worked a regular day job for a long time and raised a family. Biographically, I don't know much about Joe, though I admire his brilliant boxing technique. He seems to have boxed even better than his own high accomplishments indicate. The king of cute.

[Willie Pep 229]

Does Roberto Duran here apply?

There was centrally, at the end, a new mastery of temperament and pacing that allowed Duran to extend his career.

Of course he was always a smart fighter, but early on he fought with fury, and later on, against the bigger opponents, he slowed down and held a kind of temperament mastery over his fights, (the kind you felt Ali held,) sometimes even during a loss. E.g Hagler.

As smart as a fighter he was, he still grew even wiser as his skills faded.

Pushing the fantasy a little further -- if you put the older Duran's temperament and pacing together with his early skills you come out with a Benny Leonard.

[The Old LefHook]

Pushing the fantasy a little further -- if you put the older Duran's temperament and pacing together with his early skills you come out with a Benny Leonard.

I see Duran well enough but not Benny Leonard.

[Marchegiano]

Of the not yet mentioned:

Bob Fitzsimmons did not use his solar plexus punch early in his career. I'm sure it would have done well.